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Want VZ 23 Information

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Calfed
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Want VZ 23 Information

#1 Post by Calfed » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:56 pm

Zeliard wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:56 pm
Excellent summary, Z
Thanks, but I take absolutely no credit for this. It's all Ed's, I just reposted it. :)
I've got a VZ-23, but have not been able to find out much about it.

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#2 Post by Calfed » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:37 pm

Here are some pics of my VZ-23...

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#3 Post by indy1919a4 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:02 pm

Stupid question, How can you tell its a vz-23 vs 24???. Is it just by the date on the side??

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#4 Post by Kevinofborg » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:19 pm

indy1919a4,

Well short answer is no but that is a good clue. So remember that the VZ 23 Short Rifle was a "first attempt" at a short rifle and things changed on the way to the VZ 24. Next remember that the Czechs had some unwanted guests a few years later in the Germans who like to barrow guns and sometimes mess with them.

So what I can see from your photos that put this in the VZ 23 camp are the Czech 23 acceptance mark and the crest markings but some rifles accepted in 1923 have the shorter CS.ST. ZBROJOVKA BRNO crest.

The front sight protector is from a VZ24. VZ23s have a slot for a sight hood "like" a German one BUT the REAR of the slot is deeper than the FRONT. Some early VZ24s may have had that but that got phased out early.

Your stock looks to have a stock disk and not a washer so that looks good. Your rear sling ring should swivel. Your stock may have is serial number on the right side of the stock with or with out the letter.

The rear sight numbers have more "curled serifs" not sure I said that right and I cannot tell for sure on your rifle.

Your H block serial number is well with in the A through M blocks but that may have gone to the O block which has some 1924 dated VZ23s.

My 2 cents,
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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#5 Post by EdHoffer » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:30 pm

KevinofBorg gave some good insights, but here are some more.

Trivia: A "true" VZ23 is a rare rare bird. Many were modified into the first VZ 24's. Others fixed up to be compatible with 24's (e.g. Barrel length and stock config).

I have an "almost" true, but the barrel is a VZ24.

Other than the acceptance stamp (year) the other dead giveaway is the Arch Script on the receiver. When the VZ 24 was issued (other than converted 23's) they used the Rampart Lion. Years on the top of the receiver were primarily used for contract sales I believe.

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#6 Post by Calfed » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:15 pm

indy1919a4 wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:02 pm
Stupid question, How can you tell its a vz-23 vs 24???. Is it just by the date on the side??
The date is one thing, as is the serial number block. An immediate clue is that the VZ 23 barrel is about 1.75" shorter than the Z24.

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#7 Post by Calfed » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:16 pm

Thanks, Kevin and Ed.

My rifle is partial matching....the upper band, handguard, stock, trigger guard, and rear sight all match. The floor plate and bolt do not. The bolt is a a "G" series bolt.

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#8 Post by Calfed » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:34 pm

Kevinofborg wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:19 pm
The front sight protector is from a VZ24. VZ23s have a slot for a sight hood "like" a German one BUT the REAR of the slot is deeper than the FRONT. Some early VZ24s may have had that but that got phased out early.

Thanks, Kevin. I've gotten varied feedback on the front sight protector. It is different from most VZ24 front sight protectors that I've seen, which have a "bulge" to accomodate the front sight post "wings", like these...

ImageImage


Mine has "cut outs" for the same purpose. People whom I consider knowledgeable have suggested that my style of sight protector is a late VZ23 protector.


ImageImage

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#9 Post by Calfed » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:39 pm

Kevinofborg wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:19 pm
Your stock looks to have a stock disk and not a washer so that looks good. Your rear sling ring should swivel. Your stock may have is serial number on the right side of the stock with or with out the letter.

The unit disc has 32P and 2939 on it.

Image

The serial number is on the buttstock.

Image

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#10 Post by Calfed » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:18 am

EdHoffer wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:30 pm
KevinofBorg gave some good insights, but here are some more.

Trivia: A "true" VZ23 is a rare rare bird. Many were modified into the first VZ 24's. Others fixed up to be compatible with 24's (e.g. Barrel length and stock config).

I have an "almost" true, but the barrel is a VZ24.

Other than the acceptance stamp (year) the other dead giveaway is the Arch Script on the receiver. When the VZ 24 was issued (other than converted 23's) they used the Rampart Lion. Years on the top of the receiver were primarily used for contract sales I believe.
Ed, any opinion on what a true VZ23 is worth?

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#11 Post by indy1919a4 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:42 pm

Hey all moocho thanks for the real time and effort taken here to show and explain the differences.. I really thank you all I will now be a little smarter while looking for one..

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#12 Post by EdHoffer » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:53 pm

Calfed wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:18 am
EdHoffer wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:30 pm
KevinofBorg gave some good insights, but here are some more.

Trivia: A "true" VZ23 is a rare rare bird. Many were modified into the first VZ 24's. Others fixed up to be compatible with 24's (e.g. Barrel length and stock config).

I have an "almost" true, but the barrel is a VZ24.

Other than the acceptance stamp (year) the other dead giveaway is the Arch Script on the receiver. When the VZ 24 was issued (other than converted 23's) they used the Rampart Lion. Years on the top of the receiver were primarily used for contract sales I believe.
Ed, any opinion on what a true VZ23 is worth?
True VZ 23? I've never seen one to be honest, and most of the ones I've seen offered as such were not (hence my almost pure VZ 23). I'd bet though, that a complete non fudged example in VG would go for 800 plus or even higher. To an honest collector probably 1K. But I have nothing to base this on.

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#13 Post by Calfed » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:10 pm

As far as I can tell, mine is an honest-to-goodness VZ-23.

It has the shorter VZ-23 barrel, a non-matching, but authentic VZ-23 bolt, VZ-23 stock and handguard, etc.

Is there anything you see in my pics that leads you to doubt its authenticity?

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#14 Post by EdHoffer » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:40 pm

At face value Steve I can't see anything, but I don't know if anything had been replaced/altered here or abroad. My 23 is serial number 833. I'm not an an authoritarian, but if meets all spec's of a 23 and other than the "perhaps" doubtful front sight (not totally sure), with what you said about the non matching portions, I'd feel comfortable in a valuation 300 more that 24's bring now a days.

Now comes the drum roll.... Steve says he picked it up at an estate sale for 200 bucks. LMAO

Nice find though.

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Re: Want VZ 23 Information

#15 Post by Calfed » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:31 am

EdHoffer wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:40 pm
At face value Steve I can't see anything, but I don't know if anything had been replaced/altered here or abroad. My 23 is serial number 833. I'm not an an authoritarian, but if meets all spec's of a 23 and other than the "perhaps" doubtful front sight (not totally sure), with what you said about the non matching portions, I'd feel comfortable in a valuation 300 more that 24's bring now a days.

Now comes the drum roll.... Steve says he picked it up at an estate sale for 200 bucks. LMAO

Nice find though.
Don't laugh too hard, Ed ;)

Thanks for your honest evaluation.

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