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 Post subject: 922 The real deal
New postPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:29 am 
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Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun
using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution
by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or
agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political
subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of
testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the
provisions of Sec. 178.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into
or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the
replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

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Last edited by Burner on Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:39 am 
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Now then lets look at the imported parts in a SKS

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings yes the receiver
(2) Barrels yes
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments the yugo 59/66 only unless you put one there
(6) Bolts yes
(7) Bolt carriers yes
(8) Operating rods no
(9) Gas pistons yes
(10) Trigger housings no the frame of the trigger group is not a housing
(11) Triggers yes
(12) Hammers yes
(13) Sears yes
(14) Disconnectors yes
(15) Buttstocks yes
(16) Pistol grips yes
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies yes
(19) Followers yes
(20) Floorplates

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ok I count 14 evil parts counting a muzzle device. 15 if you want to count the hand guard.

So if you make ANY changes to your SKS from the factory form, you can have no more than 10 of these evil imported parts.

So you need to replace 4 or 5 of the above parts, your choice, with Domestic parts. 8 No F--ing way.

When in doubt call the BATF they will be more then happy to tell you "this weeks" meaning of the law.

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Last edited by Burner on Thu May 17, 2007 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:35 pm 
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OK. I've got a SKS with a T6 on it. It has the gas piston, operating rod, stock etc US made. Does that mean I'd still be able to have an original (superior btw) magazine reinstalled? If I switch back the original mag,it would be this remaining combo.
And if the handguard does'nt count, does that mean I can get one of those ventilated metal ones?

(1) reciever
(2) Barrels yes
(3) Bolts yes
(4) Bolt carriers yes
() Operating rods yes (US Made)
() Gas pistons yes (US Made)
(5) Triggers yes
(6) Hammers yes
(7 ) Sears yes
(8 ) Disconnectors yes
() Buttstocks (US Made)
() Pistol grips (US Made)
(9) Magazine bodies yes
(10) Followers yes


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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:04 pm 
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i ought to start up a company building trigger group parts for a sks. could make a fortune. then everyone could have it like they want it :).

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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:45 am 
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As I said before ask the ATF to be sure.

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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:59 pm 
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The handguard is a listed part and the SKS does have one. Unless of course you have a different name for the piece of wood that covers the gas assembly! So now we are up to 6 at least! The pistol grip on your American made folding stock doesn't count cause there is no pistol grip as I see it on the military style stock! So by adding a pistol griped stock you would be adding a American made part to the weapon that previously didn't have it one it so it can't, as I see it, count as a compliance part.
Now let's not forget the part in the law concerning detachable magazines and 2 or more of the evil parts listed. This is a separate part of the law that use to concern a rifle with a detachable magazine! Be it large capacity or not, it doesn't specify. If memory serves me right, these parts are bayonets, muzzle attachments, flash suppressors, pistol grips, and a couple of more. This is where you can get into trouble. This may not even be part of the law anymore since the assault weapons ban has went away. This law simply put as I read it says you can't have a semi automatic that accepts detachable magazines and has 2 or more of the listed evil parts.
What do you have to do to put that pistol grip folding or collapsing stock on? Well as "I" read the law, you will have to replace the butt stock, the handguard, the operation rod, the gas piston, the grenade launcher on your Yugo with a USA made muzzle break, and the magazine with American Made Parts. The magazine body, follower, and floor plate are 3 of the parts. But then the original mag doesn't have a floor plate so your adding a part that wasn't there but if its American made there should be no problem.
Grind the bayonet lug off and you're good!
I would write the BAFT with rifle specifics and modifications if I were thinking about this. I had a mod stock and did the parts game but took it all off when I refinished the original stock.
By taking your Yugo and putting a pistol grip stock on it and even having a USA made detachable magazine you may be violating law.This due to the fact that you now have a rifle that accepts detachable mags, has a pistol grip, and has a bayonet lug on it. Clearly as I see it more then 1 of the evil parts.
And as I said this is just the way I read the laws. Write the BAFT and learn the truth.


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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:06 pm 
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CRazy Yes you are correct. Anything that prevents burning the hand on the barrel is a handguard. I missed that one thanks.

But even thought the pistol grip on a US made stock is US made you are adding one evil part as per 922r. It still needs to be accounted for.

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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:39 pm 
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Well with the bayo lug, they've been flip flopping on that one. Some ATF letters say with the SKS you can have a bayo lug, but no bayo, sometimes they said you can have neither. Just to be safe I got rid of mine.


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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:06 pm 
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Hmm, I thought the handguard on the SKS was to keep you from burning yourself on the gas tube and not the barrel?

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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:03 pm 
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So you are adding a evil part of 2 or more section of 922 r. Soooo Here I go again :) If you take a SKS add a pistol grip stock you cannot make it a folder or a collapsible stock if you have a detachable magazine. You would also need to remove the bayo lug and the nade launcher (on the Yugo) So lets see here. This configuration would work if you wanted it: A Yugo with a DETACHABLE MAGAZINE A NON FOLDING OR COLLAPSIBLE STOCK BUT WITH A PISTOL GRIP. A US made muzzle break NOT a FLASH SUPPRESSOR! The Tapco gas piston and operating rod, A replacement US made handguard. Mind you the Detachable mag must be a US made one not a AK conversion. And then the bayo lug ground off This would give you a 922r compliant American made weapon correct?
Or if you want you can just leave it alone take the bayo off for hunting and be HAPPY!


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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:25 pm 
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That should be peachy, just gotta remove the night sights too. From what I understand if you have enough US made parts, it's considered US made, and you can pretty much do anything to it that's legal to do to an AR-model as long as you make sure to keep the US parts count high enough.


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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:47 pm 
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Location: LOUISIANA
USA MAG = FLOOR PATE ,FOLLOWER, MAGBODY.
FOREARM,HAND GAURD(USA MADE)?
OP ROD
GAS PISTON
THAT LEAVES FRAME BARREL BOLT BOLT CARRIER TRIGGER TRIGER HOUSING(?)
HAMMER SEAR DISCONECTOR ORG STOCK NOTHING ELSE APPLIES IF IT DOES MAKE IT USA
THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT


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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:55 pm 
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BTW I contacted the ATF. And removing items from a C&R such as a Yugo 59/66 is ok I guess. That sort of settles the all-or-nothing thing I think. Wonder if they'll flip-flop again. They also said there is no operating rod on an SKS.
---------------

"Thank you for visiting ATF's Website. I apologize for the delay in responding,
but our FTB was backlogged with inquiries.

As stated on our site, generally, we do not answer technical questions via
e-mail, but I contacted our Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) and was advised the
following:

"Modifications to Imported SKS and AK Type Rifles

ATF's Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) received many letters asking about the
legality of making modifications to imported semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Section 922(r), specifically states
the following:

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any
semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun
prohibited from importation under the Section 925(d)(3)...as not being
particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes...
Also, 27 C.F.R. Section 478.39 (formerly 178.39) states-

"...(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more
than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the
assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not
being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purpose.....

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a
licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof
or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or
experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions
of[§478.151(formerly 178.151)]; or (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which
had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30,
1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts [tabulated below]
are:


(1) Frames, receivers, receiver
castings, forgings, or castings.
(2) Barrels.
(3) Barrel extensions.
(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions).
(5) Muzzle attachments.
(6) Bolts.
(7) Bolt carriers.
(8) Operating rods.
(9) Gas pistons.
(10) Trigger housings.
(11) Triggers.
(12) Hammers.
(13) Sears.
(14) Disconnectors.
(15) Buttstocks.
(16) Pistol grips.
(17) Forearms, handguards.
(18) Magazine bodies.
(19) Followers.
(20) Floor plates.

As a result of a 1989 study by the U.S. Treasury Department regarding the
importability of certain firearms, an import ban was placed on military-style
firearms. This ban included not only military-type firearms, but also extended
to firearms with certain features that were considered to be "nonsporting."
Among such nonsporting features were the ability to accept a detachable
magazine, folding/telescoping stocks, separate pistol grips, ability to accept a
bayonet, flash suppressors, bipods, grenade launchers, and night sights. The
exception for this criteria is curios and relics in their original military
configuration i.e. the Yugoslavian SKS 59/66. Yugoslavian SKS 59/66 rifles can
be modified by removing offending features (as in the State of California) but
not adding features.

Determinations regarding the suitability for sporting purposes are made on a
case-by-case base and often will require review by the Firearms Technology
Branch. Rifles that are prohibited from importations include:

1. Semiautomatic versions of machineguns
2. Rifles chambered to accept a centerfire cartridge case having a length of
2.25 inches or less (includes .223 and 7.62 X 39); AND
3. Rifles that have the ability to accept a detachable large capacity magazine
originally designed and produced for a military assault rifle or be easily
modified to accept such a magazine with only minor adjustments to the rifle.

Non-sporting features may be removed from SKS and AK type rifles without
violating 922(r), i.e. bayonet, bayonet lug, bipod, grenade launcher, flash
suppressor, and night sight. Any additions to SKS and AK type rifles would
make them nonsporting firearms that would be in violation of 922(r). These
additions include: replacing the thumbhole stock with a pistol grip and
military style stock and/or modifying the firearm to accept a high capacity
magazine.

In order to modify SKS or AK type rifles and avoid any violations of 922(r), you
will have to replace the foreign parts, except for 10, with U.S.-made parts. As
previously stated, no more than 10 of the above 20 foreign parts can be
installed after the modification.

You can remove the Night Sights, Grenade Launcher, Grenade Launcher
Sight, Bayonet, and Bayonet lug without repercussion as removal of items has no
bearing under Federal law."

Your proposal makes the following changes:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver
castings, forgings, or castings.
(2) Barrels.
(3) Barrel extensions. None on SKS
(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions). None on SKS
(5) Muzzle attachments. Removed
(6) Bolts.
(7) Bolt carriers.
(8) Operating rods. None on SKS
(9) Gas pistons. Replaced with US part
(10) Trigger housings.
(11) Triggers.
(12) Hammers.
(13) Sears.
(14) Disconnectors.
(15) Buttstocks. Replaced with US part
(16) Pistol grips. None on SKS
(17) Forearms, handguards. Replaced with US part
(18) Magazine bodies. Replaced with US part
(19) Followers. Replaced with US part
(20) Floor plates. Replaced with US part

The resulting firearm would have items 1, 2, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14

Since the proposed rifle would only have 9 imported parts, the modifications
would be legal under Federal law."

If you have any further questions, please call them on 304-260-1700. Regards,


-------


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 Post subject: Crazy Regulation!
New postPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:25 pm 
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Location: Oakland, CA
I can't believe how convoluted it becomes to simply put a new stock on a rifle! Wood vs. Composite, period.

This should be an LSAT question.

Here is a link to a widely circulated article from 98' about SKS modification:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/us ... to_faq.txt

"Suvivors" SKS FAQ:
http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html#_Toc138675118

Here is a link to Tapco's SKS compliance list:

http://www.tapco.com/page.asp?id=73

If you buy the T6 stock you must also purchase the handguard/gas piston assembly, 5rd detachable magazine, and operating rod. If your in Cali- remember no pistol grips!!!!!!

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/regs/pistolgrip.htm

SKS's do have operating rods. It's called the gas piston extension in the disassembly instructions posted in the SKS section of this site.Image

I wonder if Kivarri's trigger enhancement counts towards compliance parts.


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 Post subject:
New postPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:28 am 
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Quote:
I wonder if Kivarri's trigger enhancement counts towards compliance parts.


No, it does not

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