Well, the board is either fixed, or it's going to run terribly. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. I'm at my technical limit right now.

Please help identify this Arisaka

Arisaka, Murata, Siamese, Korean, and North China Rifles
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PatB
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Please help identify this Arisaka

#1 Post by PatB » Mon May 27, 2019 4:36 pm

Hello Forum Members,
I have a Type 38 Carbine that I inherited from my father. It has been in his house as long as I can remember, at least since the 1950’s, and as far as I know he never even fired it. It has an intact chrysanthemum, and Nagoya Series 5 markings.
IMG_0029.jpg

It’s overall length, 38 inches, and barrel length, 19 inches, match Type 38 Carbine numbers, but it has some other characteristics that have me puzzled.

The rear barrel band has a bottom mounted sling swivel. I don’t think this is correct for a type 38 carbine.
IMG_0030.jpg
The rear sling swivel is mounted on the bottom of the buttstock instead of the side. I don’t think this is correct for a type 38 carbine.
IMG_0032.jpg
The distance between the front barrel band and the rear barrel band is very small.
IMG_0043.jpg
I’m not sure exactly what I have here. Is this possibly an arsenal rebuild? Or is this a rebuild in somebody’s workshop.

Any help will be appreciated. Thank you very much.

72 usmc
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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#2 Post by 72 usmc » Mon May 27, 2019 6:00 pm

Never seen one like that, and it has a US M1 carbine sling on it. Stock Not original in my book. A rifle I would avoid at a show due to the stock, so lets see if its some rare modification. This will be a learning experience. But I will let the experts speak. Slowbob2 really knows his Arisakas & may comment, but rarely provides links. The lower links are what I would expect to see.

http://www.thepaulkfamily.com/gunweb/ar ... _16046.htm


So see this link for pictures of a Cavalry Carbine in a normal configuration. https://pre98.com/shop/gone-but-not-for ... hing-mint/

pic enlarge from above link reposted:
Screen Shot 2019-05-27 at 5.00.47 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-27 at 5.01.23 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-27 at 5.01.45 PM.png
Libertytreecollectors reference Library photo set ( real clear photos of both carbine types):
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... oduct=7790
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... ategory=82
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#3 Post by indy1919a4 » Mon May 27, 2019 6:58 pm

Does it have a hole for a cleaning rod?? & if so how deep is it???

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#4 Post by 72 usmc » Mon May 27, 2019 8:35 pm

Here is a mint unmodified Nagoya Series 5 type 38 carbine.
link with some nice pictures of a real winner:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns- ... =100924919

Your stock appears odd because the finger groove is so long and thin and the end of the forearm is rounded. My guess, Maybe someone took a type 38 long rifle stock and modified it to fit that carbine???? :think: Hence, the longer finger groove and sling bar swivel position like a type 38 long rifle found on a carbine. Matching, mum intact, and dust cover ? Buy a correct stock with cleaning rod & restore the baby. :confusion-confused
A very nice M1 carbine sling (later type) :drool: :drool: http://www.rollanet.org/~stacyw/us_m1_carbine_sling.htm
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#5 Post by PatB » Tue May 28, 2019 10:44 am

indy1919a4, It does have a hole for the cleaning rod, but the rod itself is missing. I was able to insert a piece of welding rod into the cleaning rod hole to a depth of 13 1/2 inches.

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#6 Post by PatB » Tue May 28, 2019 10:48 am

72 usmc, Yes, I'm beginning to think that the stock is not original. I haven't taken it apart yet - I might find some additional clues.

Thanks!

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#7 Post by indy1919a4 » Tue May 28, 2019 11:39 am

PatB wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:44 am
indy1919a4, It does have a hole for the cleaning rod, but the rod itself is missing. I was able to insert a piece of welding rod into the cleaning rod hole to a depth of 13 1/2 inches.
Just a hair brain thought... Maybe you can show a photo of the receiver.. any chance this is in 8mm and is a Chinese retread.. I know the Chinese captured a lot of Japanese rifles during the war and repurposed them for their needs.. In many ways at this time they were like the Turks where they never threw a rifle away just because it was beat to hell and of a different caliber.. :shock:

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#8 Post by slowbob2 » Wed May 29, 2019 8:25 am

The stock is a cut down from a T-38 rifle . No telling who did it , except it was not the Japanese . As crudely as it is done with an oddball finish , I would not think it was the Chinese either . My vote will go to bubba .

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#9 Post by indy1919a4 » Wed May 29, 2019 5:08 pm

slowbob2 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 8:25 am
The stock is a cut down from a T-38 rifle . No telling who did it , except it was not the Japanese . As crudely as it is done with an oddball finish , I would not think it was the Chinese either . My vote will go to bubba .
Oh Man, when in doubt blame bubba. How cliche :). The OP says it was owned from the 1950s they did not have bubbas back then, Did they???? :lol: .. I hold out hope it is Chinese.. if OP said it dates from the 1960s I would toss Viet Nam modifications...

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#10 Post by slowbob2 » Wed May 29, 2019 9:17 pm

Carbine with a broken stock needs a quick fix from a time where parts were much harder to find . The Chinese never left the mum on a redone rifle and a Chinese rifle should have an import stamp on it .

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#11 Post by PatB » Wed May 29, 2019 11:06 pm

Here are two pics I took after disassembly. I’ve not tried to chamber a round so I can’t confirm if it is 6.5 mm or something else.

75094F1E-E621-4BD0-949F-5F05A3F1F5FD.jpeg

The barrel and receiver seem to have matching numbers.
5FCC1DA9-B3C3-4B31-B675-42BA2E17BEE2.jpeg

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#12 Post by 72 usmc » Thu May 30, 2019 12:43 pm

:idea: Look at the bolt number and the dust cover number, if they all match its a winner for restoration.
That metal is in perfect shape and if the bolt and dust cover match, that rifle is worth an intact carbine replacemet stock to save it. Of course that may be another $150-300. But you may find a dog Nagoya carbine with a poor bore, missmatched bolt, rust, and ground mum in a complete carbine with an intact finished stock that may also have a cleaning rod at a gun show around $200-300. Buy it for its intact stock and use the stock to restore your dads rifle. With such a nice metal, i'd go for restoration and keep it as a prize. Or, it is a nice trader to someone that wants to restore an all matching rifle.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Please help identify this Arisaka

#13 Post by PatB » Fri May 31, 2019 8:21 pm

72 usmc, I checked the numbers on the bolt and they don't match any of the other numbers on the gun. However, as you mentioned, the metal is in good shape, no rust anywhere, so I think I'll keep it and look for either a replacement stock or a parts gun with a good stock. Thanks for all the info!

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