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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:17 pm
Posts: 5
Age: 50
I have one and have shot a lot of pmc and american eagle in the white plain wrap box with no issues. I shot some steel case stuff in a gray box from Big 5 and had sticky bolt and primers backing out issues. It should be plenty rliable with the right ammo. Nice gun.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:40 am 
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Mil-Surp Shooter
Mil-Surp Shooter

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:52 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 60
I am enjoying this dicussion and appreciate the advice. Thanks too for the kind comments on the rifle. As for reloading for it, I would load the lowest pressure I could properly as I would most likely just punch paper or shoot a whitetail at close range. I too easily develope an affection for these guns but it is my resposibility to sell them, eventually. I can't help wanting to enjoy them a bit first.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:35 am 
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Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:25 am
Posts: 2021
Location: Central Florida
Age: 55
Here is some comparative data for .308 and 7.65x53 Argie (ammoguide.com). The rounds have nearly identical case capacity, so using load data from the 7.65x53 Argie for a particular bullet weight would give you a starting point for a lower pressure .308 load for the same bullet weight. This is just reference data, so use caution.

Average Muzzle Velocity Comparison
308 Win 2,716
7.65mm 2,358

Average Muzzle Energy Comparison
308 Win 2,440
7.65mm 2,255

Average Employed Bullet Weight Comparison
308 Win 154
7.65mm 183

Case Capacity Comparison
308 Win 55.8
7.65mm 55.9


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Moderator
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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:34 am
Posts: 4213
Location: Southern California Beach
Age: 61
Generally. small ring Mausers aren't considered appropriate for 50K cup ammo. To demonstrate, most barrel makers do not make small ring barrels in such calibers as .243, 7mm-08, and so on, but only in 45k cup calibers like .257 Roberts, 6.5x55 and 7x57.

There are very real reasons that the 93, 94, 96, 96 Mauser design was greatly altered when the 8mm Mauser (a 50k CUP cartridge) was introduced and became the large ring '98 pattern. While one of the modifications (cock on close to cock on open) was done to improve battlefield utility, the majority of the major modifications were done for safety: the increase in forward ring diameter, the addition of a third locking lug, the addition of larger gas vents in the bolt, and the addition of the gas deflection face at the forward end of the shroud.

The model 1916 was a modification of the '93 pattern Mauser originally designed for and chambered for the 7x57 cartridge, a 45k cup class cartridge. Instead of purchasing new rifles, the Spanish government altered some of the stocks of older rifles they had collecting dust in warehouses as a stopgap measure until enough new rifles were purchased or manufactured to equip all troops with the rifles capable of firing the new cartridge. At the time, Spain's economy was in the dumper after their civil war in the 30s and WWII in the 40s nearly destroying all of Europe, and they had very real, and nearby threat of the rapidly expanding Soviet Union expansion into Eastern Europe to deal with - just for some historical context. So, if you think that just because the Spanish government chambered some old rifles to shoot a new cartridge that the rifle design was intended to take that cartridge, you are mistaken.

All of that said, the M1916 can and does do a pretty good job of handling 50K cup loadings. If you think there is sufficient safety factor to shoot them, by all means. go ahead. The Germans didn't think so when they spent millions developing the model '98 to handle that pressure when issuing to their troops. For me, I would relegate any piece of history like this to occasional plinking, and perhaps deer hunting using less than 45k cup loads. The 30/30 and .300 Savage seem to do fine killing deer with even lower pressure loads yet (40k cup) and for plinking and target shooting, many consider that there's nothing better or more fun that cast bullet loads at something like 25K cup. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to tolerate a much lower factor of safety when barbarians are poised to overrun my home and I'm preparing to fight for my life than I am when out for a Sunday of fun and relaxation with my nephews. How about you?

_________________
- Jeff


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:34 am 
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Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:58 am
Posts: 84
Location: 71degrees north, Norway.
Age: 33
The spanish cartridge in the 1950s was not full power 7,62X51 NATO, it was 7,62X51 CETME that had lower pressure than the NATO round has.
The first generation CETME rifle didnt use full power 7,62X51 NATO rounds.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Benefactor
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Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:25 am
Posts: 2021
Location: Central Florida
Age: 55
Lumberjack wrote:
The spanish cartridge in the 1950s was not full power 7,62X51 NATO, it was 7,62X51 CETME that had lower pressure than the NATO round has.
The first generation CETME rifle didnt use full power 7,62X51 NATO rounds.

You are correct. However, the FR-7 and FR-8 are intended to use the full power 7.62x51 NATO round.

Just for curiosity, does anyone have the ballistic specs on the original 7.62x51 CETME? It probably made sense, judging from the complaints I have heard about firing full auto with M-14 and L1A1 being very hard to control.


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