Well, the board is either fixed, or it's going to run terribly. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. I'm at my technical limit right now.

‘41 Lithgow - Lucky to hit paper ... @ 25-Yds! Wot?

Post Reply
Message
Author
DaleH
Member
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:24 pm
Age: 57
Location: Mass, USA
United States of America

‘41 Lithgow - Lucky to hit paper ... @ 25-Yds! Wot?

#1 Post by DaleH » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:25 pm

My new-to-me Lithgow No1 Mk3 is detailed here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=972&hilit=SMLE

I refinished the stock, as it was do dark as to be black. The tip of 1/3rd each BLO, vinegar & turpentine woeked really well, thanks to Candyman for that trick. I checked the headspace using the unseated washer trick and it’s at the min side, excellent. She’s a J. Jovino import, but appears to be a Lithgow-built arm and not a ‘parts gun’. The recoil plates were intact and (without adding any bedding) I checked all surfaces and interfaces as I could whilst using the tips from ‘Enfield Accurizing’ from YouTube.

Internally and at the action, all checked out really, really well! But ... wow, the results were sickening, never mind disappointing. Now I’ve been shootin’ nothing but lots of black powdah (matchlocks & flintlocks) since the refinish, and I only deer hunt with flintlocks, so I just got her to the range today, where temps were warm(er) out.

Used 150-grn jacketed softpoint Privi ... at 25/yards, but I was lucky to hit ‘1-mile of paper’. Admittedly I will be using cast loads and was just trying to blast off the jacketed ammo for the brass, but wow ... I sure expected MUCH better than an 18” group at 25-yards! Thoughts?
D5946372-226C-4485-9F18-E63570143291.jpeg
D5946372-226C-4485-9F18-E63570143291.jpeg
D5946372-226C-4485-9F18-E63570143291.jpeg
Attachments
242B0F1F-5B01-44A9-8DA3-83579502E7C2.jpeg
88E844B3-E036-4D3A-920E-3AE2122C5942.jpeg

Tommy Atkins
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:47 pm
Age: 66
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Canada

Re: ‘41 Lithgow - Lucky to hit paper ... @ 25-Yds! Wot?

#2 Post by Tommy Atkins » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:19 pm

1st thing try different ammo, some rifles are picky. Try some FLAT BASE 180 Gr Rem or something.
Is the muzzle centered in the aperture in the nosecap?
How's the rifling look?
How about the muzzle crown?

DaleH
Member
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:24 pm
Age: 57
Location: Mass, USA
United States of America

Re: ‘41 Lithgow - Lucky to hit paper ... @ 25-Yds! Wot?

#3 Post by DaleH » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:01 pm

Muzzle centered in the aperture in the nosecap? - Not centered, no, it is a rad eccentric as Enfield Accurizings info says it should be, due to pressure built into the barrel bedding.

How's the rifling look? - Mint, checks great w/ borescope, no pitting and appears uniform from jag work.


How about the muzzle crown? - Looks good, didn’t touch it.

Thanks for the input, I too think it is ammo related. Oh well, will slug it some night this week and report back! Will pull those other Privi loads and reload them (new powder) w/ some heavies I have for my Mosin.

User avatar
RWS
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:26 am
Age: 66
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
United States of America

Re: ‘41 Lithgow - Lucky to hit paper ... @ 25-Yds! Wot?

#4 Post by RWS » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:41 am

I also have a '41 Lithgow. Mine's not a parts gun either and, like yours, is terribly inaccurate. Mine is definitely not ammo brand related (and I suspect yours isn't either) because I've now tried over 30 combinations of different brands and weights of ammo and numerous handloads, all to no effect. I've also looked at all the factors DaleH suggested and nothing there is amiss. I have a 1918 SMLE to compare it with and there really is no comparison. The old WW1 rifle with a frosted bore shoots rings around the Lithgow. The only thing I have NOT yet tried is using a load with a 215 grain bullet.

How do you intend to slug your bore? With 5 lands and grooves it is impossible to get a micrometer or calipers on any two opposing bullet lands in order to determine groove diameter in the barrel, so your readings will always be in error on the low side. This, and the 7 lands-and-groove Webley .455 revolvers make accurate slugging a real challenge. If you know a precise way of measuring it then it would comfort my very liver to know how it should be done at home without all the fancy instruments that a ballistics lab has.

-Bob

slowbob2
Member
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:02 pm
Age: 38
Location: slaton
United States of America

Re: ‘41 Lithgow - Lucky to hit paper ... @ 25-Yds! Wot?

#5 Post by slowbob2 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:17 am

Your problem is probably large groove dia . Both my Lithgow's are .315+ . Both shot really bad , never better than 5 inch 5-shot groups at 100 yards . A small dia Russian bullet would not help . Any bullet with a short bearing surface , small dia , or boat tail will cause problems . Try the Hornady .312 dia 174 rn bullet at lower velocities with a faster burning powder . My best load was that bullet with 19.8 [ hand measured ] of SR-4759 at well under 2000 fps .

DaleH
Member
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:24 pm
Age: 57
Location: Mass, USA
United States of America

Re: ‘41 Lithgow - Lucky to hit paper ... @ 25-Yds! Wot?

#6 Post by DaleH » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:42 pm

Thanks for the comments guys!
RWS wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:41 am
How do you intend to slug your bore?
Well, for slugging I’ve had great results using pure lead sinkers with the hole through the center. It is the measuring that’s bitch with odd numbered lands and grooves.

What I do is to wrap the slug with thin steel shim stock, full diameter, or use 2 curved pieces 180-degrees opposed, to measure the overall diameter; multiple measurements and will average them. Then I’ll measure the ‘step’ between the lands and grooves, again taking multiple measurements and averaging them (even if only in my head, haha) so that I have a value I can believe in. Full diameter minus 2X the step = the bore measurement.

FYI, my Dad was a locksmith (when they were true machinists and/or craftsmen) and I continue in the trade (only part-time), but he left me with a ton of flat (in all size and thicknesses) and pre-curved shim stock that is ideal for this work! Commercially, you can buy the durable, long-lasting .0015” thick stainless steel ‘curved’ shim stock that is tough enough to withstand measurement with a 0-1” micrometer w/ ratchet-end, without deforming.

A pack of (25) can be had for only $3.50 from this vendor CLK, where I buy my lock supplies from:

Link = https://www.clksupplies.com/products/sh ... gI72PD_BwE

... maybe some day I should make a post of this ‘shim stock’ process w/ pictures ...

steved66
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:10 am
Age: 51
Location: New Jersey, USA
United States of America

Re: ‘41 Lithgow - Lucky to hit paper ... @ 25-Yds! Wot?

#7 Post by steved66 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:28 pm

Hey Dale,

I suggest you try the 180gr, .311 Spitzer "303" from Sierra. The flat base and long bearing surface may help. As for cast loads, once you've slugged the bore and determined the diameter, in addition to the slightly oversized, gas checked cast bullet I know you will be using, try using the well-known Alliant 2400 load for milsurps (16gr) and fill the empty space between the powder and the bullet base with PSB filler, a shotgun shell buffer/tiny polymer spheres

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart ... PR&i=PSB22

The buffer will keep the gas from cutting past the bullet in a pitted bore or one with deep grooves. Saved the day for my sewerpipe M1917 Eddystone that couldn't print a single shot on a 2' x 3' target frame at 50yds. The combination of low velocity, oversized, gas checked bullet and buffer served to print a respectable group at 50yds. It was amazing to see the same rifle that couldn't hit a target frame at 50yds with M2 Ball ammo hit the bullseye with the aforementioned cast load. Without the buffer the same Alliant / cast bullet combination did print on the target but the spread was 4-5 inches at 50yds.

Post Reply

Return to “British Empire and Commonwealth”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests