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VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

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72 usmc
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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#16 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:55 pm

The next five...
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To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#17 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:58 pm

The next five...
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To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#18 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:05 pm

More information.

The Lee-Enfield No. 5 Mk. I "Jungle Carbine" By David Tong
https://www.chuckhawks.com/jungle_carbine.htm

No.5 Mk.I Jungle Carbine: post-WWII use
NOVEMBER 4, 2015
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/201 ... -wwii-use/

JC Green paint under the wood see viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1971

Real or Fake Is that “Jungle Carbine” Real or Fake? Posted July 22, 2013 in Rifles by Othais see https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... real-fake/

Real or Reproduction No.5 BAYONET? see https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... le-Carbine


All About Enfields (& more pictures) These are the group of small ones at the bottom of the article I only selected a few of the best.
http://www.allaboutenfields.co.nz/no5/

some select photos from the above source:
markings.jpg
Receiver markings
mag.jpg
Inside magazine
lightening-cuts.jpg
lightening cuts on original JC bottom view
knox-1.jpg
Knox markings
knox-2.jpg
Knox
Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#19 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:16 pm

All About Enfields (& more pictures)
http://www.allaboutenfields.co.nz/no5/
more select photos from above source:
forewood-comparisons.jpg
Forward treatments wood/metal
flash-hider.jpg
Original flash hider and pins, not screwed on or pressed on reproduction.
faint-knox-markings.jpg
Lighting cuts top view under hand guard & Knox markings
butt2.jpg
Rubber butt pad and broad arrow mark
barrel-1.jpg
Barrel
Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#20 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:17 pm

And one final photo from All about Enfields:
proofed.jpg
Proof
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#21 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:02 pm

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... real-fake/
Here is a nice example photo:

Source of photo showing lighten cuts shaved metal to action on the JC
Click on photo to enlarge
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 6.49.08 PM.png
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. 5 “Jungle Carbine”
Overall length 39-1/2 inches; 20-1/2 inch barrel with flash hider. Rubber buttplate; short fore-end.

An honest No. 5 rifle (or “Jungle Carbine”) has lightening flutes cut in the barrel knox form and extensive milling done to the receiver to lighten it. (Take the handguard off and look for the barrel flutes.) Also, an honest No. 5 will be electro-engraved “No5MKI” on the left side of the receiver and will not have “No. 4” stamped or engraved anywhere on it. In addition, an honest No. 5 will bear the proper manufacturer’s code: “(ROF)F” for Fazakerley or “M47C” for BSA-Shirley. Finally, the barrel band will be only 8 inches in front of the receiver ring--rather than 10-3/4 inches as on a No. 4 rifle.

In the 1950s and 1960s, Golden State Arms Co. of Pasadena, California modified quite a few No. 4 rifles by shortening the barrels, adding flash hiders, and shortening the fore-ends. Some were equipped with Fajen or Bishop sporter stocks, as well. These were called various names, such as “No. 4 Jungle Carbine,” or “Santa Fe Mountain Carbine,” or “Mountain Rifle,” but all have “Golden State Arms” and “Santa Fe” roll-stamped on the barrel. Nice aftermarket conversions, but strictly that.

Currently, Navy Arms is doing the same thing with No. 4 rifles and selling them as “No. 5 Jungle Carbines.” At arm’s length they look genuine, but they have standard No. 4 rifle markings and DO NOT have the lightening flutes on the barrel or the lightening cuts on the receiver. These are strictly fakes--or thinly disguised “replicas.”
Source: https://webpages.uidaho.edu/stratton/en-page/fakes.htm

--------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------
So in conclusion, a genuine No. 5 Jungle carbine Enfield has up to a 4 digit serial number, flutes on the top barrel and receiver cuts to lighten the weapon, a hollowed out bolt handle and the barrel band will be approximately 7 3/4 inches from the receiver. Look at these two spots: the left rear above the safety catch, and the right rear where the bolt handle turns down. Reproduction JCs made from a No.4 lack the flutes (look under the hand guard) and a No.4 barrel band will be approximately 10 1/2 inches from the receiver. Rear sight is graduated to 800 (8) not 1300 (13) as found on a No. 4.
The flash eliminator is set with two cross pins, not one, or none. Look for stock marks-cartouches and letters for stock length. L our S- normal length unmarked.
Ishapore rebuilds can have black paint & can have an Ishy screw in the stock in front of the magazine. Sometimes the bolt knob is hollowed out larger than an original, non reconditioned JC. Watch out for a JC that is marked "No. 4 Mk 1", "Golden State Arms", " Santa Fe", "Navy Arms Co." or if its stamped "Jungle Carbine" on the left side of the receiver. Most likely not original. There is also differences to the trigger guard- real ones have a narrow narrow trigger band, and should have a metal relief removal just in front of the magazine showing a gap between the metal & wood inlet. It is different from the No. 4 Enfield that has a wide trigger band and no metal removal just behind where the front screw is located. On most BSA JCs, but not always, the left side of the wrist strap should have M 47 C, below that a year, and below that, a serial number. In contrast, the Fazaherly has generally a broad arrow and serial number with most of the other info on the receiver:
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 8.12.37 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 8.12.37 PM.png (19.91 KiB) Viewed 3731 times
There are many variations in the markings on the strap.
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 8.26.36 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 8.26.36 PM.png (93.47 KiB) Viewed 3726 times
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 8.33.47 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 8.33.47 PM.png (57.23 KiB) Viewed 3724 times
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 8.34.28 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 8.34.28 PM.png (99.69 KiB) Viewed 3724 times
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#22 Post by 72 usmc » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:25 am

Mods, for your consideration, please consider making this a sticky in the Enfield section.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#23 Post by 72 usmc » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:36 am

I may add a few views of the wrist strap for each year 1944-47 from my rifles. Got to dig them out
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#24 Post by 72 usmc » Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:11 pm

Put back as a former sticky like in the old forum?
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley

#25 Post by Tommy Atkins » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:28 am

glue applied.

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