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Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

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72 usmc
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Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#1 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:36 pm

Empire Arms just posted two of the fake Enfield .308 Jungle Carbines made by Navy Arms:

INDIAN Enfield No.2A1 bolt-action "Jungle Carbine" # R1388 (7.62x51 NATO) mfg. by Rifle Factory Ishapore in 1967. Excellent-PLUS condition, with full oil-blacked surfaces. This is a cut-down rifle (by NAVY ARMS) as there were never any true "Jungle Carbines" produced by this manufacturer. Rear sight matches receiver, nothing else does. Bore is mirror bright and sharp. Stock has been nicely refinished and is quite attractive. NOT chambered for .308 Winchester ammo (no matter what anyone else tells you, don't attempt to shoot .308 in this carbine). PHOTOS . . . $625.
Photo source is Empire arms
Screen Shot 2020-01-23 at 3.38.02 PM.png
Last edited by 72 usmc on Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#2 Post by Tommy Atkins » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:01 pm

Why, that looks like some kind of mouser! :?

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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#3 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:54 pm

Very odd half of the updated edits are gone? I corrected the picture. This is a screen shot not a direct garb so it should stay put.
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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#4 Post by LCPfraTN » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:06 pm

Certainly pricey for what it is. My real ones must be worth a mint now if this is what a “replica” is bringing these days!


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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#5 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:10 pm

Ya, that is what I thought for a conversion, what is a real No. 5 Jungle carbine worth? And that sucker sold in 4 hours?? Is that nuts, or what? Why would you want a fake when you can buy a real JC? If you like a NATO round, an Israeli K98 is a cheeped choice and fine shooter.
Ishapore 2A1 Rifle (similar to an Enfield No. 1 Mk III*) that was cut down by Navy Arms / Gibbs Rifle Co. to have the appearance of a Jungle Carbine for marketing purposes and to convert 2A and 2A1 rifles with badly worn muzzle crowns into useable, salable merchandise, taking advantage of surplus No. 5 Jungle Carbine parts in Navy Arms / Gibbs inventory. They were offered in the 1990s on the US firearms market.

The 2A and 2A1 (2A1 had a slight mod to the rear sight) were built by Rifle Factory Ishapore in India throughout the 1960s and into the 70s in general Enfield No. 1 Mk III* configuration and chambered in .308 Winchester / 7.62x51 NATO. They were made primarily for use by what amounts to the Indian National Police.

What is noteworthy about the 2A and 2A1 rifles is the receiver, which was made using a nickel steel alloy for increased strength in order to shoot the 7.62 NATO round. The same nickel steel receiver was used in Indian No.1 Mk III* rifles chambered in 303 British made at Ishapore from the mid 1960s to the late 1980s, about '87 or '88. Yes, the No.1 Mk III* Enfield was still in production on planet Earth as late as 1988. The receiver is about 10%-15% stronger than a earlier Ishapore Enfield receiver, or a 303 Enfield receiver made in England, Australia, or Pakistan. See Alan's comment about this statement is in error

The only real issue with the 2A/2A1 rifles and the faux "Jungle Carbines" is the finicky feeding of round from the magazine. These rifles typically take some tweaking (by bending) of the magazine feed lips to get them to feed cartridges reliably. DO NOT grind on the feed lips, just gently bend them up or down a bit at a time if your carbine doesn't feed reliably. If you grind on a feed lip you will likely ruin a magazine, and spare ORIGINAL 2A1 mags are unobtanium. There are cheaply-made, worthless, non-functioning 2A/2A1 mags available from those gun show dealers with tubs and bins of "no-name" magazines, but you are wasting your $$$ buying one. I've tried to repair a few 2A1s with feed issues where owners were too fast in reaching for their dremels, and then bought the gun show crap mags without much luck. Know this -- patience, a needle-nosed pliers, 40 rds of ammo, and 1 to 2 hrs at the range are your best friends when trying to repair cartridge feed issues in a 2A/2A1.
source; http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=136202
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#6 Post by LCPfraTN » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:15 pm

I’m not planning on selling any of mine to find out, but it does make me wonder what they might sell for these days.


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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#7 Post by Tommy Atkins » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:12 pm

There are 2 separate posts on this topic, maybe in the other one?

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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#8 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:30 pm

transfer of info is here:
Also see the photos in this link:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16038
Those rifles where converted in a now defunct shop in Martinsburg, WV. Gibbs/Navy Arms at one time was a neat place to visit because they had tons of stuff stacked in there shop and it was a treasure hunt smeared with cosmo.
I changed the duplicate post to the No.7 Gibbs JC . I am not sure if a Gibbs No.7 and the Navy Arms marked Ishapore JC are the same rifle? Wood stocks and different stock versions exist.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#9 Post by Alan De Enfield » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:50 am

O' dear, I thought this had been well and truly de-bunked.

What is noteworthy about the 2A and 2A1 rifles is the receiver, which was made using a nickel steel alloy for increased strength in order to shoot the 7.62 NATO round. The same nickel steel receiver was used in Indian No.1 Mk III* rifles chambered in 303 British made at Ishapore from the mid 1960s to the late 1980s, about '87 or '88. Yes, the No.1 Mk III* Enfield was still in production on planet Earth as late as 1988. The receiver is about 10%-15% stronger than a earlier Ishapore Enfield receiver, or a 303 Enfield receiver made in England, Australia, or Pakistan.

Not according to the Ishapore factory Proof Master !!!
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over many years,

the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic". Dresden James

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Re: Indian (Navy Arms) JC ishapore

#10 Post by Alan De Enfield » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:19 am

I have previously posted this, but maybe repetition might hit a new audience :

Summary - Ishapore changed the British specified steel on their No1 Mk3's and they failed proof testing, so they amended the tests. When the 2A / 2A1 was introduced it badly failed the proof testing (warping the action) so Ishapore reverted back to the ORIGINAL British specified EN steel for the 2A / 2A1.
The No1 Mk3 remained in the lower grade SWES steel for the rest of its production.



Extract from “Gun Digest 33rd Anniversary 1979 Deluxe Edition”
Article Author : Mr A G Harrison
Qualification : Former ‘Proof Master’ of the ‘Rifle Factory Proof House, Ishapore, India’

From 1908 to 1950 all military bolt action rifles made at Ishapore were proof tested with a dry-round, followed with by an oiled proof round. The proof cartridge was loaded to 24 tons psi breech pressure, or 15% higher than the service pressure. In 1950 (after the departure, in 1949, of India from British control) the material for the rifle bodies was altered from an EN steel to SWES 48 steel with the recoil shoulder and cam recesses being heat treated. With this change the rifle receivers distorted when oiled proof cartridges were fired. This was discovered when hard and sometimes impossible bolt retraction was experienced. Large quantities of rifles were rejected.
To avoid rejections the authorities ordered discontinuance of the oiled proof round. Therefore from 1950 to the end of SMLE production, rifles made at Ishapore were proof tested with one dry proof only, although the specification still called for both dry and oiled proof. All bolts and bolt heads issued as spares were always proofed with a dry proof round only.

A bolt action rifle similar to the SMLE MkIII*, modified to fire the 7.62mm NATO cartridge, was produced at Ishapore, first in February 1965. The receivers were made of SWES 48 steel (as per the SMLE MkIII*) and with the NATO proof cartridge the receivers were found to distort with both the dry and oiled proof round. The material was changed back to the EN steel so now the rifles stand up better to dry and oiled proof. After passing proof the barrels are impressed with the Indian national proof stamp. The bolt handles and bolt head claws are struck with the crossed flags only.
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over many years,

the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic". Dresden James

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