http://www.scoutscopes.comhttp://www.mojosights.comhttp://smith-sights.com

It is currently Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:31 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:38 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 37
Location: El Paso, TX
Age: 52
I walk up to a rack and see what I think is a beautiful RC VZ-24, but then see there's a large US Eagle crest on the receiver. As I pick it up the man sez "that's a .308 and it shoots real nice".
Above the eagle is Model 98/85 and on the side of the receiver it reads "Federal Ordnance Inc., So. El Monte CA USA". It was a VZ 24 or a cousin from the looks of it, but it was beautiful. And Parkerized. And .308?

Sitting in the same rack is a small ring Mauser that had the stock cut down but a barrel band in place anywhere where Bubba clamped it back on. It read 7mm Mauser and I took it to be of the 93 Spanish or South American variety, but I'm not too good in IDing those.

So. what the heck did I come home with? Let me know if you can't see the pics I took....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/audnorge/


Thanks, Audnorge


Last edited by Audnorge on Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:37 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Museum Curator
Mil-Surp Museum Curator

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 794
Location: Ambridge, PA
Age: 54
I don't know what you got, but I sure dig it =P~ . Nice find =D> .

_________________
Friends don't let friends bubba.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:50 am 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:16 am
Posts: 3201
Location: CO
Age: 52
I didn't get a good look, but could it be an IDF Israeli mauser? One of those that they rebarreled to 7.62x51 for themselves?

_________________
"A church is not the less sacred because curs frequently lift up their leg against it, and affront the wall: It is the nature of dogs." Cato's Letters.
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." - SPQR


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:22 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:04 am
Posts: 1030
Age: 30
Federal Ordnance Inc., So. El Monte CA USA via Blue Book of Gun Values via Goole.

Previous manufacturer, importer, and distributor located in South El Monte, CA from 1966-1992. Brickley Trading Co. bought the remaining assets of Federal Ordnance, Inc. in late 1992, and contiued to import carious firearms until circa 1998. Federal Ordnance imported an distributed both foreign and domestic military handguns and rifles until 1992. In addition, they also fabricated firearms using mostly newer parts.

I can't find much info on the rifle itself. Googling 'Mauser 98/85' turned up a few results but none of the links worked. From what I could gather its possible that it is a VZ-24 that was scrubbed, stamped, and re-barreled in .308. I was not able to determine the significance of the U.S. eagle crest with a Star of David above it or any other possible explanations of the rifle. Hopefully some one here will be able to tell you more.
-Jake

_________________
“Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss."
-Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:14 am 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 37
Location: El Paso, TX
Age: 52
So, I talked to a friend who seemed to know more of the story. Federal Ordnance actually manufactured the receiver and barrel in the US and built the guns with WWII surplus mostly Czech parts. That would fit with what I see. The stock looks brand new.
They also made a number of M1A1s in the same manner.

There is no Star of David, don't know where that came from. It's not an Israeli 98, I've seen plenty of those.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:18 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:04 am
Posts: 1030
Age: 30
Audnorge wrote:
...There is no Star of David, don't know where that came from...


Image

Looks like a Star of David to me...
-Jake

_________________
“Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss."
-Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:59 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 37
Location: El Paso, TX
Age: 52
It is a six pointed star rather than the US five pointed one.

Mazel tov Jake!

Audnorge


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:10 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:04 am
Posts: 1030
Age: 30
When you figure out the whole story I'd love to hear it.
-Jake

_________________
“Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss."
-Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:47 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Museum Curator
Mil-Surp Museum Curator

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:41 am
Posts: 510
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
Age: 49
I've never heard of Federal Ordinance actually manufacturing anything.
They imported, and occassionally, when necessary did refinishing/rebuilding.
Much like Mitchell does today.

As spqrzilla suggested it was probably an IDF Mauser.
The finish on most of the ones that came into this country had metal surfaces so rough they reminded you of road gravel.
And the stocks on them were so dented and stained you could bearly tell that they were made out of wood.
So refinishing them in this manner would have been right up Federal Ordinance's Alley.

I will admit, however, that I have never personally meet or corresponded with anyone who worked for Federal Ordinance.
So I can't guarentee the accuracy of my information .

_________________
Schools teach that the Precious Metals are GOLD, SILVER, PALLADIUM and PLATINUM.
Life teachs that they're really BRASS, COPPER, STEEL and LEAD.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:10 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Collector
Mil-Surp Collector

Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 12:50 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Lexington, KY
Age: 54
That's not a star of David. It's a six-pointed star made up of five-pointed stars. You can find it above the eagle on the back of a dollar bill and the Great Seal of the United States.

IG

_________________
The Constitution Party

For a better Right


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:42 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:55 pm
Posts: 12642
Location: San Antonio, TX
Age: 59
Decided to do some searching....

so far:

http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/arch ... 00680.html

American Eagle large ring Mauser Model 98/85 7.62x51mm, American eagle
crest on top of the receiver. Cartridge base mounted in right side of butt
stock, indicating chambering. Appears new and unfired. $185.

This tidbit was on gunboards before they lost their data:

Mauser M-98/85 ... revolvers made in the 60's and Mauser rifles made up by Fed Ord Inc in the 80's with the American eagle ...

_________________
Learn from your mistakes and move on with life
SMSgt USAF 1972-1995 Lifetime NRA, DAV, AFA, AFSA Ham Radio N5ECH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:11 am 
Offline
Mil-Surp Shooter
Mil-Surp Shooter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:42 am
Posts: 179
Location: South Central ALASKA (Anchorage)
Age: 60
Irish Guard is correct check out the back of a dollar bill same eagle as well

_________________
You are the SUM of your EXPERIENCES
03a3, SMLE No.1 MK III, VZ 24, Mosin M38
NRA member, NAHC life member, NSSF member


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:13 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Owner
Mil-Surp Owner

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:08 pm
Posts: 36
Age: 83
fed ord also made m1 garand from deactivated recievers.I have an cut down m1 with 18 barrel in 308 with bm59 clip.
I wonder if federal arms fridley minn is the remains of fed ord.
a lot of arms co went north east from cal.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:17 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 37
Location: El Paso, TX
Age: 52
The 'Mystery' 98 Mauser solved!

Federal Ordnance 'American Eagle' Model 98/85 Mauser in .308.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/audnorge/s ... 928760648/

After extensive research and many dead ends, I found a former employee (actually, Manager of their Technical Dept.) and he was kind enough to spend some time on the phone with me and tell me the Federal Ordnance story and the story of my 'American Eagle' Mauser.

In the 1980s Federal Ordnance, a Milsurp importer based in California, was able to purchase several thousand 8mm Mauser rifles from a company in England. Seems the company in England had secured them from a contact China. They were all K98k and Czech VZ24s and the condition of the whole lot was poor....dirty, most rusted, broken stocks, parts missing, etc. He noted that the Chinese had not taken care of these at all and barrels were rusted badly, etc. It was a package deal, the real prize in the transaction was thousands of Mauser C96 pistols and Chinese Shansei pistols.

On assessment of the shipment, it was decided that most would be disassembled and the receivers cleaned, blued and sold to custom gun builders. They decided that they had enough parts to build their own conversions and began the long process of their manufacture.

Everything was completely disassembled and receivers magnaflux tested for cracks. New .308 barrels were purchased from Citadel. All crests and markings were carefully sanded and polished out, except for a number of Czech Two-tailed Lion crests that were intact, which were restored using an etching process. All other receivers got the American Eagle crest etched on. All hardware was sanded and all metal was deep blued by a subcontractor.

Their in-house wood shop meanwhile was busy working on stocks and handguards, with a variety of Mauser military stocks used. They did good work, as the furniture on my example is beautiful.

The .308 barrels were installed, headspaced by the technical team's smiths and all rifles were test fired. The "Czech Two-Tailed Lion Mauser" and the "American Eagle" Mauser were then sold to distributors that sold them throughout the US. It's estimated they completed between 3000 and 4000 of these in 1985. Many of the .308 barrelled receivers were sold to custom builders as well.

Bob Thomasser, the very kind gentleman that served as Fed Ord's Tech Manager told me a bit about their restoration of the C96 Mausers. He also told me of their M1 Garands and M14s.

Despite some contrary information I found on the web, Fed Ord actually did manufacture Garand and M14 receivers in their California shop, using CNC machinery that Bob had specified they purchase. They also made their own Mauser auto pistol recievers and sold many of those. The Garand and M14 rifles were purchased from Israel with the receivers cut.

Federal Ordnance was closed after Norinco's imports of M14s devalued the market, opened soon after as Bricklee Trading, which mostly imported Norinco SKSs.

The owner of Fed Ord and Bob Thomasser and another employee started Pacific Canvas and Leather. Bob runs things there now and as I said, was very helpful with this information a super nice guy. They have manufactured in Asia many correct historic holsters, slings, ammo boxes and M1 Cheek pads, etc. You should check out their wares....


http://www.pacificcanvasandleather.com/


Aud Norge
El Paso, TX

(Sorry for the long post.....I have enough info to actually write a longer article on this topic if y'all are interested)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
FAIR USE NOTICE: This site may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been pre-authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available to advance understanding of political, economic, scientific, social, art, media, and cultural issues. The 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material that may exist on this site is provided for under U.S. Copyright Law. In accordance with U.S. Code Title 17, Section 107, material on this site is distributed without profit to persons interested in such information for research and educational purposes. If you want to use any copyrighted material that may exist on this site for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.