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 Post subject: Siamese/Thai collecting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:48 pm 
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I have recently started collecting Siamese/Thai rifles and think it is great that you guys have a place to discuss them.So far I have three a and am saving up for a Type 91 army carbine.For those who are interested in Siamese/Thai rifles there is a least a dozen differant rifles to collect.There are three publications that cover Siamese/Thai rifles.The first one is The Siamese Mauser,a study of Siamese/Thai Type 46 rifles & Type 47 carbines by Frank Allen & Roger L. Wakelam,Banzai special project no.1,The second book is The Type 38 Arisaka,a study of the Japanese rifles and carbines based upon the Type 38 Arisaka action,there variations and history,by Frank c. Allen & Harold W. Macy,Banzai special project #8,which covers the Type 66 long rifle,Type 83 long rifle and 83/88 short rifle and Thai Type 91 carbines,The third one is The Early Arisakas,a study of the Japanese Type 30 rifles & carbines,Navel Type 35 rifles,Subtitute Type 02/45 rifles and there variations, by Frank Allen,Doss H. White,Dr. Stanley Zielinski,Banzai special project #9 which covers Siamese marked 30 and 35 sales samples.All these books have been super helpful.I like to collect Japanese rifles but the Siamese/Thai rifles are just as addictive and interesting.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:52 pm 
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Contact 1886lebel here on SR. He collects these rifles. He also won out last 500 yard shoot using a Type 66 Siamese Mauser rifle. He has some rare rifles/carbines in his collection.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:37 pm 
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Steve, we must know some of the same people, I have all those books too. I have a 66 and a 91 Army carbine. Here are some pictures of my Army Carbine.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:50 pm 
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After having the Army carbine for awhile I figured if the Thia's could do it so could I, so I made a reproduction. riceone.
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Before blueing, note how the barrel is profiled for lightness but leveing full size to hold in the bands and the front sight. Bolt handle is turned smaller and angle rearward behind the third locking lug. This is an accurate duplication.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:16 pm 
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I also have all these publications ... I will be working with Frank Allen on the New Siamese/Thai Type 46 and 47 book he will be doing after he completes the book he is on right now on Late 19th Century Japanese Foreign Weapons.
I have in my collection .... Type 46 (1 in 8x50Rmm Type 66 and 1 in 8x52Rmm), 66 and both Type 91 RTA and RTNP Carbines ... I am in the process of getting a Type 83 still in 6.5x50SRmm that has a charka stamped on the top of the reciever, after talking to Frank he said this is a very rare version of this rifle.
I also think that these firearms are interesting and are very under-rated.
Patrick

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:24 pm 
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Ok i dont mean to steal the thread here, but am i the only one who think these rifles look like a cross between a arisaka and a M1 carbine, maybe it is just me but that is what i see in the pics.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:01 am 
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thats because thats what those carbines are supposed to be like. kinda like a crossbreed M1/T-38 carbine.

on a seperate note, i once owned a gorgeous #4 Mk.1 Siamese marked rifle. i believe it was even savage made and US property stamped. all "S" marked parts, all matching, unissued condition, with th Charka on the receiver chamber. it was absolutely gorgeous, but i traded it to a fellow Siamese rifle collector who was die hard to get it. seems as though they are extremely rare.....kinda regret trading it now.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:29 am 
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The Siamese had some M1 Carbines during the war and liked them. Not having money to buy more and no one interested in giving them more they took captured T38 long rifles and cut them down to this configuration. On the Police carbine they did not turn the bolt knob and stem down or bend it down but left it straight. The Police carbine had the front of the stock left like the M1, whereas the Army Carbine was squared off. They cut the rear sight in three peices and welded the front and back together making a short sight like the T38 carbine. riceone

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:42 am 
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Nice rifles riceone,I checked out you web site and you have a few rifles that make me drool.1886Lebel,very cool you are working with Frank.Frank gave me a copy of his Siamese mauser book and then hooked me up with another collector that had one for sale. Can't thank him enough.What really made me hooked was a rifle I bought from Doss out of the adds in Banzai.It was sporteized as far as cutting the stock but doss replaced it.I did not know it at the time I bought it but it was allready in the 38 book.What a surprise!It is listed in the Prototypes And Other Interesting Examples.It is prototype 10,has no serial # and the bolt matches the # 24 0n the receiver.It has the FUKU stamp on it.One day I hope to add a Siamese marked 35 to my collection,that would kill two birds with one stone since I don't have one for my Japanese collection yet either.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:52 am 
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Took some pictures of Prototype 10


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Hmm...I kind of like the looks of those carbines. 8)

Now the trick is to find one at a reasonably low price :-k


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:30 pm 
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I made a friend one and made me another out of a T99. Never shot any of them. riceone

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:26 pm 
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Dear jarjarbarlinks11;

I recently sent some photos of a Thai marked No. 4, which were from another Japanese collector, to a friend in Thailand. He was astounded at the condition of the example. These rifles were supplied, in very limited numbers, to the Free Thai Movement during the latter stages of WWII. Most never left the countryside and in the harsh weather of Thailand they deteriorated. The one I sent him pictures of had a small RTA charkra on the receiver. It was also Savage U.S.-made and had the U.S. property stamp. Great rifle.

My contact went on to say that the presence of the Charkra prevents private ownership in Thailand. They can not even own a Siamese Mauser!!

Frank


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:31 pm 
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You mean one of these Frank ...
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=75552
Patrick

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Dear Patrick;

Yeap. All details are the same. I guess some went into Thai military service and were pretty well careed for and then since they were not a standard Thai weapon they went into storage and were eventually sold off as surplus. Nice that some survive today.

Frank


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