http://www.scoutscopes.comhttp://www.mojosights.comhttp://smith-sights.com

It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:55 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:09 pm 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
Two examples of captured Boer War, South African Republic (ZAR), Westley Richards & Co Martini Henry Action .577x .450 Calibre Rifles.

The first rifle, with carved Boer initials is dated 1897 whilst the second is 1898.

Westley Richards had these rifles manufactured by Francotte in Liege, Belgium, specifically for the Zuid Afrikaansche Republiek. Approximately 10,000 were delivered before relations broke down and the huge benefits of the 7mm smokeless, repeating Mauser were fully appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:11 pm 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
...where has the image upload box gone!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:55 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:58 pm
Posts: 901
Location: Birmingham, AL
Age: 53
Gone temporarily due to site issues. Send me the pictures and I will host them for you. I would REALLY love to see the rifles!

TK

_________________
Never Give Up, Never Surrender!
Preserve Historic Artifacts for Future Generations: Collect Firearms


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:15 pm 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
Ok, here we go!

(TK; thanks for the offer, but I see the upload box is up and running)

These are the before pictures. I will upload the strip and clean when I get some time to do it...

- The first rifle, with no Boer carvings, appears to have water damage to all finish - but no pitting. The action is crisp and tight. The bore is sharp and shiny. There is a number (post production) numbers stamped on the barrel, a different one on the rear of the receiver, and another behind that on the stock. Maybe Boer, maybe not.

The block serial matches the receiver serial (hidden when fore stock is on). The rifle then has a different serial on the block, block parts, barrel and underside of the receiver and sight parts - which also all match. This appears correct, as this is repeated on the other rifle in an identical fashion.

- The second rifle, with (J?) RS engraved into the stock appears to have a bit more history to her. The has to be the most worn rifle I have. The metal is heavily worn, all markings are dull. The rear sight has worn so much that the (platinum?) inserts that were once flush sit proud. The wood has been sanded quite heavily, whilst it was on the rifle (raised around barrel bands). I feel that this was contemporary, most likely by the Boer who fought with her. The butt stock shows considerable wear on top of what was once sanded smooth. The right hand side of both butt stocks seems to have suffered worst.

The block literally disassembles itself when you remove it. The bore was absolutely filthy, but isn't actually too bad now cleaned. It looks like someone has reamed it (of used a brush attached to a drill). I find this interesting, as I had a Nepalese rifle with identical marks in the bore.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:16 pm 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
...


Attachments:
zar 1.jpg
zar 1.jpg [ 55.46 KiB | Viewed 1834 times ]
zar 2.jpg
zar 2.jpg [ 61.62 KiB | Viewed 1834 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:17 pm 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
...


Attachments:
jrs2.jpg
jrs2.jpg [ 52 KiB | Viewed 1834 times ]
jrs3.jpg
jrs3.jpg [ 62.32 KiB | Viewed 1834 times ]
jrs1.jpg
jrs1.jpg [ 60.99 KiB | Viewed 1834 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:25 pm 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
Just for those with Boer war interest, this is my Boer war era Lee Enfield Mk1*

This rifle is fully ordnance marked, military issue. However, what you see is all the original finish. The bore is like new. As this rifle escaped military service so early in its life, without any of the upgrades (she was built as a Mk1*) or rebuilds she could have very well been Boer war issue, being issued new late war.

From what I understand, some of the men that served on a volunteer bases were allowed to keep their rifles. This could be one of those.

Whatever her excuses for escaping the military so early (and WW1) she makes for a very good example of what we used to fight the Boers...


Attachments:
le1.jpg
le1.jpg [ 246.8 KiB | Viewed 1833 times ]
le2.jpg
le2.jpg [ 505 KiB | Viewed 1833 times ]
le3.jpg
le3.jpg [ 489.55 KiB | Viewed 1833 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:49 pm 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
...and the rifle we were scared of. The Boers new small caliber, smokeless repeating rifle.

This rifle and the Lee Enfield Mk1* were very well matched. Both cock on close, both shoot a very comparable round, both are very accurate and very well built. The Enfield has a ten round magazine, the Mauser has a five round - but is charger loading.

This rifle is all matching, including the bolt and cleaning rod which are usually mis-matched.

The comb of the stock was damaged and has been sanded smooth, almost certainly by its Boer owner.

This rifle is interesting, it is number A214, meaning that it was one of the very first rifles, from the very first batch delivered to the ZAR.

The rifle has its Boer owners name carved into the stock. When cleaning I noticed there is more. It appears the soldier who captured the rifle marked his name, unit and possible date of capture. It appears he marked the rifle using pencil. He marked it hard enough to leave an impression, but not break the surface. It is quite easy to read, but impossible to photograph.

It appears to read:

D S BROWN
RSF
V VI 00

I presume the final line is a date, using part Roman numerals. Possibly standing for 5th June 1900. This date would tally with the fall of Pretoria, where a huge number of Boer soldiers surrendered.

Obviously, if anyone can tell me any more I would be very interested. Unfortunately I cannot seem to trace a D S Brown serving in the Boer war with a regiment that could be abbreviated as RSF...


Attachments:
mauser5.JPG
mauser5.JPG [ 2.83 MiB | Viewed 1830 times ]
mauser4.JPG
mauser4.JPG [ 2.67 MiB | Viewed 1830 times ]
mauser3.JPG
mauser3.JPG [ 2.66 MiB | Viewed 1830 times ]
mauser2.JPG
mauser2.JPG [ 2.7 MiB | Viewed 1830 times ]
mauser1.jpg
mauser1.jpg [ 28.3 KiB | Viewed 1830 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:37 pm 
Offline
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:42 am
Posts: 1151
Location: Somewhere East
Age: 26
great collection!

_________________
Straight Stocks
Barrel Bands
Iron Sights


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:31 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:58 pm
Posts: 901
Location: Birmingham, AL
Age: 53
Beautiful rifles! I especially love the Long Lee. I have a 1907 BSA Mk I*** and it is my favorite rifle. Thank you for posting.

TK

_________________
Never Give Up, Never Surrender!
Preserve Historic Artifacts for Future Generations: Collect Firearms


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:41 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:09 pm
Posts: 3010
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Age: 25
Man... The lines of a long Lee.... Amazing... Love em

Sent using Tapatalk 4 on my phablet Note 2

_________________
Gun-buy-high;
When you want to get home ASAP to bask in the glory of your new weapon
Side-effects include;
Not remembering anything between the time of purchase till sitting at home with the weapon in hand,
a mad female,
and an influx of ammo purchases.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:49 am 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
Thanks for the kind words :thumb:

I have yet to shoot this (or any) long lee, but I don't think she will disappoint. I have fired the Mauser a number of times, and she is deadly accurate.

Here are some pictures of the un-carved Westley.

Note the additional markings on breech, receiver and butt stock.

It is also interesting to note that the sling swivels and cleaning rod are British ordnance marked pieces. These appear to have been with the rifle, possibly from new, possibly surplus being used up.

Front swivel has been twisted hard enough to crack it, ram rod is bent every which way as though someone has pounded down on it with a hammer to remove a jammed bullet!


Attachments:
P1070635 (1024x768).jpg
P1070635 (1024x768).jpg [ 330.67 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
P1070637 (1024x768).jpg
P1070637 (1024x768).jpg [ 347.62 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
P1070658 (1024x768).jpg
P1070658 (1024x768).jpg [ 306.56 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
P1070659 (1024x768).jpg
P1070659 (1024x768).jpg [ 335.37 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
P1070661 (1024x768).jpg
P1070661 (1024x768).jpg [ 315.68 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:53 am 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
Compare the wear....


Attachments:
P1070645 (1024x768).jpg
P1070645 (1024x768).jpg [ 472.62 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
P1070628 (1024x768).jpg
P1070628 (1024x768).jpg [ 357.7 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
P1070639 (1024x768).jpg
P1070639 (1024x768).jpg [ 286.43 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
P1070643 (1024x768).jpg
P1070643 (1024x768).jpg [ 435.74 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:55 am 
Online
Mil-Surp Psychosis
Mil-Surp Psychosis

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:22 pm
Posts: 1310
Location: UK
I love the way these rifles come apart...


Attachments:
P1070647 (1024x768).jpg
P1070647 (1024x768).jpg [ 516.79 KiB | Viewed 1783 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:05 pm 
Offline
Benefactor
Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:32 am
Posts: 551
Location: The Confederacy
Age: 62
303 - The four "cut" marks on the underneath action body are very similar to marks on my P1853 Enfield used during the American Civil War. (The lock plate is marked Tower 1861, with a crown behind the hammer - no VR though.)

Do you happen to know what the cut marks are? I always assumed it was some type of inspection or proof marking. I recall the Enfield has them on the barrell, and maybe on the underneath lock plate, similar to your Martini. I've always been curious about the markings.

_________________
No electrons were harmed during the transmission of this message. However, quite a few were inconvenienced and they are not happy about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
FAIR USE NOTICE: This site may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been pre-authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available to advance understanding of political, economic, scientific, social, art, media, and cultural issues. The 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material that may exist on this site is provided for under U.S. Copyright Law. In accordance with U.S. Code Title 17, Section 107, material on this site is distributed without profit to persons interested in such information for research and educational purposes. If you want to use any copyrighted material that may exist on this site for purposes that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.