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1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:54 am
by 26Intrepid
I was wondering if someone on this forum has any expertise on 1891 Engineer carbines?

Question, I picked up one of these little beauties a few months ago. I usually do my research on a rifle before I buy it... however, I purchased this one on impulse because of its size and beauty. First, I know the metal on this carbine has been refinished. Now... what I don’t know is if the finish was done by an individual or if it was arsenal refinished. The finish appears to be shiny black and not so much the shiny blue finish. It’s a beautiful finish regardless of who did it! The magazine was the only metal part not refinished. It appears have a dull black finish.

The stock on this carbine seems to be much lighter than other 1891 Engineer carbines that I’ve seen. The carbine is a “Loewe” and is in the “A” series. It appears to fit the carbine range that I’ve researched for 1891 Loewe. Every part on this rifle appears to match (Including barrel bands, mag, barrel, receiver, bolt, and stock. I disassembled the carbine and inside the stock is a “Hand etched” serial number that matches the serial number on the receiver.

The person I purchase this carbine from told me that it was used by the Argentine police up until the 1960’s. It was then decommissioned and sold as surplus. That’s all the history and the known information I have. No import mark.

So my questions are:
1) was this originally a Calvary carbine that was converted into an Engineer carbine.
2) it appears to be an original stock... or was this a replacement stock that was serial number matched?
3) is it true that these carbines were used by the Argentine police until the 1960’
4) was the original finish blue or black? I think the bolts and receivers were in the white originally? Then partial blue receiver when arsenal refinished?

I must say... I know that this thing isn’t the original finish but I kind of like it. I guess I would much rather have a piece of history that looks amazing versus beat up and finish worn. The bore is actually very nice and all the numbers match... I get the best of both worlds! I really couldn’t pass it up for $350.

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:24 am
by capt14k
Nice tiger stripe. Chemically stripped stock.

I believe they were also cutdown from 1891 rifles but I would have to double check for I don't collect the pre 1895 or exposed mag Mausers.

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Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:45 am
by 26Intrepid
Interesting,... chemically stripped? Makes sense and I guess I never though about it. Is there such a thing as tiger stripped wood? Thank you for your comment.

I don’t think this is a cut down rifle due to this information I pulled off the internet. Seems to have been manufactured as a carbine.

1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:09 pm
by capt14k
Yes there is tiger striped wood. I think I maybe confusing the 1909 as being Cutdown, though they also made original 1909 carbines as well IIRC. Yours has the shorter sight. Usually the Bubba cutdowns will still have the 2000 yard sight.

Yours was converted from a Calvary carbine because the sling rail is on the side not underneath and bayonet lugs were added.. Underneath you will likely find a plate that was added to cover the old screw holes. I believe they were blued. Police did use Mausers but not so sure they used 1891 Carbines because they had 1933 and 1935 Carbines.


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Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:11 pm
by 26Intrepid
No screw holes or plate underneath.

Also, both pieces of the bayonet clamp/ lug, and both pieces to the rear barrel band are stamped “26” ( all 4 pieces stamped 26 to match the last two numbers of the serial number). Apparently, this was an arsenal conversion and not from an individual. The part about the Argentine police having this rifle In service until the 1960’s is questionable for me. As you say, there were much better choices.

I looked at the stock and wonder how the stripes were chemically enhanced? I’ve seen a few darker stocks with this same type of stripped marking. I still wonder if it’s original or artificial? In any event, it’s one of my more prized possessions. I look forward to finding a 1909 Engineer carbine as well.

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:37 pm
by indy1919a4
26Intrepid wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:11 pm
No screw holes or plate underneath.



I looked at the stock and wonder how the stripes were chemically enhanced? I’ve seen a few darker stocks with this same type of stripped marking. I still wonder if it’s original or artificial? In any event, it’s one of my more prized possessions. I look forward to finding a 1909 Engineer carbine as well.
I can not recall ever seeing a light blond wood 1891 before.. But it is a beauty...

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:24 pm
by capt14k
26Intrepid wrote:No screw holes or plate underneath.

Also, both pieces of the bayonet clamp/ lug, and both pieces to the rear barrel band are stamped “26” ( all 4 pieces stamped 26 to match the last two numbers of the serial number). Apparently, this was an arsenal conversion and not from an individual. The part about the Argentine police having this rifle In service until the 1960’s is questionable for me. As you say, there were much better choices.

I looked at the stock and wonder how the stripes were chemically enhanced? I’ve seen a few darker stocks with this same type of stripped marking. I still wonder if it’s original or artificial? In any event, it’s one of my more prized possessions. I look forward to finding a 1909 Engineer carbine as well.
Stripes weren't chemically enhanced. The stock was chemically stripped giving it that light splotchy finish.

Not an original Calvary carbine stock otherwise it would have the plate or holes.

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Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:36 pm
by 26Intrepid
Maybe I should look first before I speak? Yes, you’re correct... it does have the holes and plate. Thanks again!

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:51 am
by vandle
Even through the stock has been refinished, those tiger stripes lures me in.

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:25 am
by 26Intrepid
Thanks everyone for your comments and for answering my questions. It is an unusual piece with the blonde wood, tiger stripes, and refinished metal parts. The only thing I want to do is replace the screws for the barrel bands. Too bad people don't use the correct size screwdriver to remove a screw (Or over tighten).

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:41 am
by capt14k
So is a conversion from a Calvary Carbine.

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Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:50 pm
by indy1919a4
OK So some questions here...

Does anyone have an idea when Calvary Carbines would have been turned into Engineer Carbines?? Was this done as a concerted effort or was it a the changes that happen at a given time then a carbine came in??

Were Argentina 1891s originally in the White?? Both Carbines and long rifles??

Did Argentina convert long rifles into Carbines??

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:53 pm
by 26Intrepid
I’m no expert on these Argentine carbines... thus the reason I’m on this forum and several others. I’ll suggest a book that a lot of the forums are encouraging people to buy and to educate themselves on these rifles/carbines. The book is called “Argentine Mauser Rifle”. Apparently, 5034 model 1891 Argentine carbines were converted to Engineer’s carbines in 1931. Only the carbines were converted and not the rifles.

I also believe that the 1891’s were originally in the white (Bolt and receiver) when manufactured. Once again, I’m not an expert and only learn from what people post. Some say it’s been arsenal refinished if the receiver is blued.

I plan on buying the booK to educate myself about the history of these fine pieces of history. People say the book has a lot of the questions you’ve asked. Hope this helps!

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:39 pm
by indy1919a4
26Intrepid wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:53 pm
I’m no expert on these Argentine carbines... thus the reason I’m on this forum and several others. I’ll suggest a book that a lot of the forums are encouraging people to buy and to educate themselves on these rifles/carbines. The book is called “Argentine Mauser Rifle”. Apparently, 5034 model 1891 Argentine carbines were converted to Engineer’s carbines in 1931. Only the carbines were converted and not the rifles.

I also believe that the 1891’s were originally in the white (Bolt and receiver) when manufactured. Once again, I’m not an expert and only learn from what people post. Some say it’s been arsenal refinished if the receiver is blued.

I plan on buying the booK to educate myself about the history of these fine pieces of history. People say the book has a lot of the questions you’ve asked. Hope this helps!

Many thanks that is wild that they liked that Engineer's carbine so that they paid extra to convert regular carbines to that, unless the regular carbines were in need of refurb.

Per that book, yeah I have been dreading that book.. After I purchased the Ball Mauser book, it has near broke me... :)

Again many thanks..

Re: 1891 Engineer carbine

Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 10:42 pm
by 1874Sharps
I know this is an older post, but I want to get the title of a book to you guys who might want to look at:

"Argentine Mauser Rifles, 1871-1959" by Colin Webster, copyright 2003. It is the best book you can find on this rifle/carbine. Using this book, I can tell you the names of the ships and the dates that they brought my four 91 Carbines to Argentina! Two of the four are Engineer Carbines and they did use original Model 91 Carbines when they decided to create the Engineer Carbines. They also cut up beautiful Remington Rolling Block brass-handled bayonets for these newly built Engineer Carbines!
1874Sharps