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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:11 am 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:54 am
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Location: Olive Branch, MS
Age: 38
My (LGS) local gun store has an all matching (receiver, bolt, magazine) No.4 Mk.1* for sale that has been sporterized. The listed price is 159.99. I told him I would have to check what it would cost me to unsporterize it before I thought of buying it and he said he would give me a "deal" on it. Not sure what the deal would be. My question is, what all parts would I need to unsporterize it and where to get them (liberty tree?)? Cost to unsporterize? Is it even worth it?

Some details:
Rifle date 1944
Faint Ftr markings
Has England stamp on right side of receiver
No import marking that I remember
All wood would have to be replaced, a lot of hand engraving
Bore is dark but appears to have strong lands and grooves, looks like it has been sitting around and is full of dust an grime, need to run some patches through it.

I am sure more info will be needed, just thought I would go ahead an ask the question while I had the time.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:44 am 
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After doing a few restorations, I would say that first you must decide how quickly your project needs to be completed. Waiting on the good quality, right parts, at the right prices to come along sucks and over powers the best of us. Shopping without time lines will save you money and most time give better results. I have recently passed up 2 No.4 Mk1s that were sporterized. $150 and $300, too much to restore as both had cut barrels but could have been turned into No.5 clones. If your rifle is metal complete and just needs stocks and related metal stock peices, I would say between $200 and $300 if you shop around. That makes a $500 dollar rifle a reality pretty quick but it gives us warm fuzzies to put them back to original configuration.
Last thought here, $159.00 for the donor gun seems high for my location and from your description. 3 bubba'd .303s for me in the last year were all $100 or less with the best buy being $55.00. My local gun store here has a post war No.4 with a beech stock that looks amazing for $300. I just love fixing them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Mil-Surp Psychosis
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I've restored three #4s and two #1s and so far have been able to keep costs under $100 each I used Springfield sporters for a lot of my parts or shows and sales around.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:12 pm 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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Location: Olive Branch, MS
Age: 38
Had not thought about the barrel being cut, I will have to look up the measurement and go to the store and measure it. That is well beyond my ability.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:38 pm 
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If it has been drilled and tapped for a scope, it catapults it into a whole new level of restoration. Probably not worth it at that point if it's been done.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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sucngas wrote:
If it has been drilled and tapped for a scope, it catapults it into a whole new level of restoration. Probably not worth it at that point if it's been done.


Did check that, didn't see any holes on the top.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Mil-Surp Shooter
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It depends on what you want to do with it really. Do you want to do a historical preservation & resotration? Or do you just want it to look correct for the period and take it to the range and shoot it all day? I've unsporterized two No 4 MK I's so far. It's a fun project for me, and I like bringing old infantry rifles back to their battlefield glory. Hey, some people rescue dogs, I rescue old infantry rifles. Plus, it helps me understand the rifle a lot more from an armorer's perspective when I tear that thing down to just a barreled receiver and piece it back together. But mine are not historically accurate in that they do not have the original stocks that it came from the factory with, but I've at least made them look like they did when they were delivered from the factory. Eventually I can shop around and get wood with the factory correct markings at least. But in the meantime, they look good and they shoot. At least the bolt, receiver, and barrel serial numbers match. I paid $110 for a sporterized 1942 Savage and $170 for a sporterized 1948 Fazakerley. But I was able to keep the costs low for unsporterizing them by shopping around for parts like previous posts have already suggested. Between Numrich, Sarco, Buymilsurp, Ebay, Gunbroker, BRP Corp, and stuff I already had laying around, I scrounged up all the pieces I needed relatively cheap. The biggest costs were the stock sets and the magazines. Sarco still has stock sets for $39.95 for a No 4 MK I. I've gotten two so far, and was happy with both sets. It took some TLC and raw linseed oil to bring them back to life, but it's worth it and they look great now. Of course, you'll still need to get all the metal accoutrements though. And BRP Corp has magazines for $28, still a steal compared to what those things typically go for on Gunbroker or at gun shows.

I do agree though that generally you can get a nice No 4 MK I much cheaper complete if you shop around rather than if you bought a sporterized one and tried to unsporterize it. Of course, there are exceptions to everything. It just depends on what you want to do and what you are willing to spend. Financially, it always makes more sense to buy the rifle complete. But if you have access to the resources to unsporterize one...then I'm all for it.

http://e-sarcoinc.com/4enfieldstockandhgsetused.aspx
http://www.brpguns.com/products/SMLE-No ... on%29.html

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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Location: Olive Branch, MS
Age: 38
Just noticed that in my initial post I put "my ((LGS) local gun store) local gun store". As if y'all wouldn't know what (LGS) local gun store was. Sorry, didnt mean to insult anyone's intelligence, I was on a 3 hr connection during an all night fight, quite tired.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:28 pm 
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If the metal has not been altered, it is worth saving. If you shop around you can get the parts you will need at pretty good prices.
A lot of times members here on the forum will help you out.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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Location: Olive Branch, MS
Age: 38
I am just wanting to restore it to a non-sporterized shooter. I am going to go by the store tomorrow to measure the barrel and see what all needs to be replaced. Can someone point me to a schematic that shows me or tell me what all parts there are to the stock? Butstock, forestock, front hand guard, rear hand guard, etc. what all different bands, sling swivels, nose cap, etc will be needed? This would (obviously) be my first Enfield and I don't know much about all the differen parts. I will make sure he barrel is 25" though (that is correct right?). Also try to get an idea of what I can walk with it for.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Mil-Surp Shooter
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I always use the schematic that Numrich has posted on their website for quick references.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Pro ... atid=11954

But there are others that will work also.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:07 am 
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Mil-Surp Psychosis
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Be sure that the rifle is a bubba'ed sporter rather than a factory sporterized Enfield before restoring it. Some of the factory sporterized rifles have their own collector's niche.

Not all that common compared to homemade sporters, but worth looking into.

Some of the factory altered rifles look no different than a fairly well finished bubba'ed rifle.

If you have any interest in hunting a decent sportered No.4 is a pretty handy rifle, and fills the need better than much more expensive commercial hunting rifles.
A pre bubba'ed rifle can be a cheap basis for a more elaborate custom sporter or target rifle, and those with cut down barrels ( if a No.4 Mk I)can be used to build a replica Jungle Carbine.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:43 am 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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Location: Olive Branch, MS
Age: 38
SavageShooter wrote:
Be sure that the rifle is a bubba'ed sporter rather than a factory sporterized Enfield before restoring it. Some of the factory sporterized rifles have their own collector's niche.

Not all that common compared to homemade sporters, but worth looking into.

Some of the factory altered rifles look no different than a fairly well finished bubba'ed rifle.

If you have any interest in hunting a decent sportered No.4 is a pretty handy rifle, and fills the need better than much more expensive commercial hunting rifles.
A pre bubba'ed rifle can be a cheap basis for a more elaborate custom sporter or target rifle, and those with cut down barrels ( if a No.4 Mk I)can be used to build a replica Jungle Carbine.


Not sure how to tell, but there are a couple of things that would lead me to believe it is a bubba:
1) it is a mk1*
2) it has faint ftr markings
3) it is from the war years (wouldnt think they would waste time with a sporter one)
4) it has hand carvings all over it so as bubba continued to drink as he was chopping, he decided all sorts of carvings would really make it sharp

I could be wrong with all those, but will take a closer look today.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Mil-Surp Owner
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:54 am
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Location: Olive Branch, MS
Age: 38
Thanks for all the answers. Unfortunately, I went back today and measured the barrel, it had been cut by 2-3 inches. He had another one in that had also been sporterized (it was Mk. 1), but that one had the barrel cut as well. So, back to looking. Thanks again.

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Just for future reference, when you look at a no4mk1*, always check the rail for chips. You'll see how the bolt head rides on the rail. This rail has a notch so you can flip the bolt head up for disassembly, to remove the bolt. If this rail is chipped on either side, it will pop out when you cycle the action, then you can't close the bolt. Something to be aware of when you are enfield shopping.

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Lord, give me patience, because if You give me strength, I'm also gonna need bail money.


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