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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:20 am 
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on the 7.65arg ammo, what is the difference of the 7.65x54 from the 53?

I see ammo all over online and local in the 53 size, but not the 54.
if my rifle is a 54 can i also use the 53 safely?

my uncle said he rammed a balsa dowell down the chamber, said it was a 54 after using a mic and sizer of some sort a few years ago.

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Last edited by phishisgroovin on Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 7.65 ammo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:39 am 
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As I understand it, the 7.65 X 53 cartridge was used to describe the ammo in 1891 Argentine (& 1909) mausers, as well as those rifles used in other South American countries, and the 7.65 X 54 was used to describe the ammo used in the Belgium version of the 1891 mauser rifle. I have read the case lenght is really between 53 and 54, that when rounding off the Argentine round became the 53 and the Belgium became 54. Both are supposed to be the same cartridge.

However, I read a post on another site about 2 years ago of a 1891 Argentine owner who had a problem chambering his handloads. He had been reloading for other calibers for some time and it was his first attempt at reloading his own 7.65 X 53 ammo for his 1891 Argentine. After numerous replies to his post that were suggestions to solving his problem, the 1891 owner discovered he had bought dies for the Belgium version of the cartridge. He solved his problem by returning the Belgium dies for Argentine dies. As I recall, there seemed to be some small difference in the shoulder between the two. I do not remember the brand of dies used by the poster.

Furthermore, I have also read of argentine surplus ammo (SF on rim, San Francisco Argentina) that is labeled 7.65 X 54. This ammo may be potentially dangerous to shoot in 1891 mausers. Seems it pushes the pressures limits of the large ring 1909 mausers and therefore is unsuitable for use in the weaker small ring 1891 rifles.


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 Post subject: Re: 7.65 ammo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:30 am 
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cool, so with me owning a mutt rifle with an argentine barrel on a oviedo spanish action i should be safe in using the arg rounds. :thumb:

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 Post subject: Re: 7.65 ammo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Phishisgroovin, I have a couple of Oviedo model 1893 mausers in 7mm and they are small ring type receivers. The metallurgy of the Oviedo receivers is not considered by some to be that good. Basic complaint is the metal in their receivers is soft, compared to German, Swede and other mauser makers. So, with it being a small ring type and taking the metallurgy question into account, I'd have a problem with shooting modern 7.65 X 53 Argentine ammo in it. Why? I've glanced at my Lee manual to compare PSI information between the 7.65 and the 7mm mauser ammo and although the Lee manual was not any real help, I came to a conclusion that the 7.65 X 53 may be more powerful than the 7mm, which was the original cartridge used in the 93 Oviedo mauser rifles. Also, Norma and Priv Partizan 7.65 ammo is loaded for shooting in 1909 Argentine large ring mausers. Some have questioned the wisdom of using this ammo in 1891 Argentine mausers and the Oviedo receiver may not be as strong as it. Basic difference between the 1891 and the 1893 are in the bolt extractor and safety features for venting escaping gas from a ruptured cartridge, which the 93 has.

Perhaps someone else can add their two cents worth on what is safe to shoot in your 7.65 barreled 93 Spanish mauser. I reload ammo, so I'd shoot only reduced loads in it if I owned your rifle.


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 Post subject: Re: 7.65 ammo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:36 pm 
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They are the same. The actual case length is 53.5 mm. Some sources say 53, some 54. I guess it depends on whether you are a pessimist or an optomist.


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 Post subject: Re: 7.65 ammo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:46 pm 
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I took the firearm to the gun shop awhile back, 7mm, 8mm, 7.62 and 30-06 all do not fit whatsoever. so the only option i have is 7.65 and thats what my uncle had it checked out to be. fired it too.
Dang bob, your gonna give my beater mutt rifle a complex man its been through enough already being stuck in a dark safe for so many years without being fondled like my Enfield..

I only want to fire it a few times, maybe once being at an Elk or a Deer or a Bear. lol!

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Last edited by phishisgroovin on Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 7.65 ammo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Try here:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7.65_Argentine.html

This should be correct.


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 Post subject: Re: 7.65 ammo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:44 pm 
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i was thinking these at Cabelas, its near me (sortof) and no shipping charges so it evens out to around the same.
Or i could go down to their store and slobber all over their firearms on the shelves and buy them in person lol!

7.65 X 53 Argentine 150 Grain SP
Hornady's

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true

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 Post subject: Re: 7.65 ammo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:22 pm 
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ok, I slugged it tonight.
I dont have a digital caliper, only a cheapo slide.
The slug reads out at 8mm on the nose though.
An 8mm round wouldnt fit the chamber at all in the gun store i took it too.

im confused now.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:43 am 
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My Argy Mausers are .312-.313. This works out to 7.92-7.95 mm. That sounds about right for your caliper measurement. An 8mm mauser bullet is 8.2 mm in diameter. The caliber refers to the bore diameter, ie. the distance between the lands. The groove diameter is the actual bullet diameter.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:13 am 
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BobVZ wrote:
My Argy Mausers are .312-.313. This works out to 7.92-7.95 mm. That sounds about right for your caliper measurement. An 8mm mauser bullet is 8.2 mm in diameter. The caliber refers to the bore diameter, ie. the distance between the lands. The groove diameter is the actual bullet diameter.


Correctomundo. Also remember that the Europeans use the diameter between grooves to designate their cartridges. This is why the 8.2mm lands diameter for the 8x57mm cartridge is referred to as 7.92 (grooves diameter).

metzgeri

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:04 pm 
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I am reading that the barrels on most carbines were actually shortened from the long guns, this must be why i am getting the larger reading on the muzzle correct?
i have yet to purchase the ammo for it, not too hip with online purchases still. I can buy local but its a drive and a day trip in itself going local to buy it.
how accurate are these old spanish mausers. are they good Elk, Bear, Deer rifles?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:27 pm 
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dangit, hit post button before i was done typing.

Last night i soaked the barrel in solvent, around 2 hours (cooked dinner) then i went back out in the cold room and pulled a few rags through it to have a looksee. it at first pulled nasty brown crud out, i resoaked it and scrubbed a little more and let it sit another hour or so. i went back out there and this time it pulled all green color.
So now i am atleast down to the jacketed bullet materials i believe.
Going to pick up a brush or a bore snake this payday.
I was thinking up a way i could plug the muzzle up for a bit and just pour solvent in the barrel but decided that would be too risky for a mess so i opted to pour it down the muzzle onto a rag i stuffed in there tightly still connected to the .22 cal cleaning rod i have instead. (need a 30cal cleaning rod set soon)

The barrel and rifling is pretty shiny now, been siting since my uncle purchased it at the store back in 1983. it never got fired for the whole time my brother had it, my uncle got it and shot only one round through it via a shoestring tied to the trigger and a fat tree between him and the rifle.
me now, i have cleaned and scrubbed with only a little more to do on it and possibly oil the actilon a bit (what do i use there?) and then get some ammo.

I dont really like the way the barrel wobbles around in the forward stock, i will try and get a ring that fits it to bring it tight again like before it was bubba'd and then be happy. i was thinking of a semi custom ring to fit the forward sling swivel, one that goes up through the stock and tightens down on the barrel by tightening the swivel nut. will have to buy new tools to complete this task though. all mine burned up in my shed a couple months ago when pugetsound energy reconnected the neighbors house to power after a trackhoe pulled down the mast on the panel. glad my guns werent out there on my tinkering table.

I really like the weight of the rifle, its going to be a pleasure walking through the thickets of trees stalking a big dinner on 4 legs. i cant wait.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:14 pm 
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so, i was browsing around the net again.
Found 200 rounds of 7.65x54 SP 57 for $50.00
Wont be any shipping as its a local sale in Seattle.

I see that the SP is a questionable round, but i cannot pass up the ammo at this price.
I will also purchase different ammo for hunting if i choose to hunt with it after firing it.

But what does the 57 on the casing mean? 57 grain?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:33 am 
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Seller callen me last night, said he had previously sold a few of the rounds so its not a full 200 he has for sale.
Still getting whatever he has left, at the price i would be stupid to pass on it.

going to have the rifle looked at before the weekend i hope, then i will go teach some paper a lesson.
all soft points, may be able to blow holes in a pumpkin as well. ImageImage I cant wait.

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