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 Post subject: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:02 pm 
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Mil-Surp Collector
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Location: Peoples' Republik of Kalifornia
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Is there a way to clean the gas system on my Hakim without taking the whole thing apart? I know how to remove the bolt carrier and other parts commonly taken out during a routine field-strip, but I'd prefer to just fish something into that little gas tube and clean it well without having to disassemble the entire rifle. I do sometimes use corrosive 1950s Yugo ammo and am concerned about cleaning the entire weapon well, not just the bore and chamber.

The problem is that the cleaning rod used for cleaning the bore simply won't fit inside that tiny gas tube. More specifically, the plastic tip I use to hold the cleaning patch won't fit, not even the .22 cal one. The gun store employees I've asked about this have been useless; the Hakim is just rare enough, that even stores specializing in C&R guns aren't real familiar with it.

Here are a handful of suggestions I've heard so far:

- piece of coat hanger wire with a wet cleaning patch (somehow) attached to the end
- AR15 cleaning rod (whatever that is - does the AR15 rifle require a smaller rod?)
- spray Gunscrubber aerosol compound (or something) down the gas tube, in the hopes it forms a "dust" in there that can be then blown out with an air compressor

Any more ideas?

I'm amazed that Google did not turn up any helpful information on this.

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:11 am 
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Flush it with hot soapy water and clean with a pipe cleaner. That will get the gunk out of the stainless non corroding gas tube and teh gas valve passage. But your gas valve threads will still rust up if you do not take it apart and clean it.

Just pull the hand guard, unscrew the gas plug and gas tube then clean it.
Takes 5 minutes at the most.

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:31 am 
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Burner's system will work, and will get your system nice and clean! If you have never really cleaned it up before, and have shot it a lot I would break it down at least once and clean it up. In my case the rifle had a lot of carbon in the gas tube, so I used a very straight wire and pushed small piece of 0000 steel wool through it after soaking to get a nice shine. After that AR15 gas tube pipe cleaners (available anywhere like midway) will keep that in check. I have pulled my gas tube and locked one end of the pipe cleaner in a vise, slide my gas tube over it and while holding one end of the pipe cleaner slide the gas tube back and forth on it to scrub the inside. If you have carbon there it may just put a lot of fuzz from the pipe cleaner in there, so again I did the steel wool trick. Remember that if you do run water into anything you have to make sure all the water is gone. The end of that gas tube is screwed into the gas block. I would make sure water doesnt get caught there, and its dry.
Sometimes the gas adjustment screw will be seized up from carbon before you got it, and will be hard to remove. Get a proper tool, or use the instructions from the surplusrifle website on making one. After cleaning the screw up I lightly coat with grease to make it easy to remove again later when I need to clean.
Burner stating that you should use hot water is no joke. After doing it my way after shooting a lot of yugo surplus ammo I still had corrosion. Cleaning it up your normal way, and then running piping hot water through it and then drying it up will keep your rifle in great shape. Solvents do not remove the corrosive salts, only water does.
Hope this helps, if you get stuck or need more help message away!


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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:50 pm 
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Hot water has been the prefered method of cleaning firearms for over 400 years.
If it is "HOT" it will dry itself in seconds and not harm a thing.


By the way the home shop built hakim gas tool on Surplusrifle . com is a good design.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/hakimgastool/index.asp

I designed it :wink:

Also great take down instructions.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/hakim/rifledisassembly/index.asp

Yup I wrote that too. =D>

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:38 pm 
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Yes, I have reviewed that sequence already.

The problem is that figures 23 and 24 don't show the gas tube apart from the rest of the weapon, so I don't even know if I'm supposed to pull that completely off somehow, or what. It would be helpful if the pictures included a snapshot of the disassembled gas system so that I can see exactly what it is I am supposed to clean.

Frankly, and no offense, but this procedure seems ridiculous. I don't understand why I can't just pull off the bolt carrier and shove something down the gas tube from the receiver. It shouldn't be necessary to take the entire f---ing rifle apart just to clean a gas tube a few inches long. And that's what it looks like I have to do - remove the trigger assembly and all this other stuff not normally associated with a routine field-stripping. The SKS doesn't have this issue - it pops right off and its gas system consists of only two pieces (a piston and a holder).

I don't mean to sound like a whiner, but the main reason I'm balking is that I'm afraid of damaging the parts or losing something or not being able to get the gun back together. I'm a novice and don't have the self confidence required. If replacement parts were more common I wouldn't be so concerned.

Why isn't this easier? Weren't Egyptian troops shooting corrosive ammo back in the 50s when this weapon was standard-issue, just like I am doing today? Was it just okay with their army commanders that their gas tubes were being eaten by rust? Or was the thinking that the desert air was so dry that there was no moisture available to form rust?

The only reason I even care about this is because I'm about to put the rifle on consignment so I can get rid of it. It may be on a store display rack for months, rusting away because I didn't clean the gas tube. Then some schmuck who buys it will have to deal with that problem, and that just ain't right.

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:51 pm 
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+1 on burners method. i have only shot my hakim once, i just broke it all down and rand those parts under hot water in the sink and to dry i just blew air through it like a straw and then put some drops of oil down it till it came out the other end. wish i had some pipe cleaners but i think that neutralized the salts.

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:26 am 
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Quote:
Weren't Egyptian troops shooting corrosive ammo back in the 50s when this weapon was standard-issue, just like I am doing today? Was it just okay with their army commanders that their gas tubes were being eaten by rust? Or was the thinking that the desert air was so dry that there was no moisture available to form rust?


Oxygen causes rust not moisture.

THE GAS TUBE IS STAINLESS STEEL IT CAN NOT AND WILL NOT CORRODE!!!!! IT IS THE GAS VALVE THAT NEEDS CLEANING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Corrosive ammo takes many weeks and months to do any damage to a gun. You may see surface rusting but that is. It is just oxidation. A gas valve may have been cleaned once a week or even less. Corrosive ammo was all that exisisted for the 500 years that firearms have been around it is nothing new and nothing only used in other countries. All ammo in the US was corrosive untill the 1950's and then surplus corrosive primed ammo was still being used well into the 1970's . Just a little water will work wonders.


Quote:
Frankly, and no offense, but this procedure seems ridiculous. I don't understand why I can't just pull off the bolt carrier and shove something down the gas tube from the receiver. It shouldn't be necessary to take the entire f---ing rifle apart just to clean a gas tube a few inches long. And that's what it looks like I have to do - remove the trigger assembly and all this other stuff not normally associated with a routine field-stripping. The SKS doesn't have this issue - it pops right off and its gas system consists of only two pieces (a piston and a holder).


Frankly and no offense you need to look it over again. Also it is not a SKS.

In one of my above posts I stated to just pull the hand guard and remove the tube and the gas plug?
How hard is that?
There is no need to do a seperate photo spread and article on how to remove each part just incase someone might not want to remove any other part.
The tube is shown out. (IT UNSCREWS) It is shown in, out of the gas block, and even with a wrench on it.

You can put anything you want down the barrel and the the tube but you are just letting the corrosive salts destroy the the gas valve.
The instructions are for a complete take down not just a cleaning. Use only the parts you need.
Why would you pull the trigger group?

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:29 am 
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Okay, okay, I worked up the confidence to actually try the steps. You'll be pleased to hear that the handguard came off easily and I managed to unscrew the gas plug.

I ran the plug under hot water and cleaned out the tube with water as suggested. Just to clarify - is that *all* I need to do? Do I also need to try to put something down that little hole that's under where the gas plug goes? Or is it enough just to clean the plug itself?

The plug and tube were actually pretty clean except for the sort of gray-black fouling I normally find on an SKS gas piston. No sign of rust or corrosion. Someone recently rebuilt this for me and he told me that when I first handed it off to him, the plug was pretty rusted up and wouldn't turn. I guess he fixed that for me.

When putting the gas plug back in after cleaning, I did have a bit of difficulty aligning it w/ that little flat washer-like piece - the part that digs into the tiny notches. Knowing I wanted to have the arrow on top of the plug pointing back toward the receiver, the tabs on that flat piece kept getting "stuck" before I had the gas plug screwed back in far enough. You know what I mean, right? Is there a "trick" to this step of the reassembly? (I finally got it back together but heck if I know how I did it. I think so anyway - the arrow is pointing where it should be. The test will come the next time I take the weapon down to the range.)

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:28 am 
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Burner: What an excellent set of directions for the home made tool and especially the takedown instructions! You get an A++ with oak leaf cluster and diamonds.


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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:56 am 
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thanks!


You have to pry up slightly the keeper to allow you to get the plug back in far enough for proper alignment.
Yup you flushed the plug, tube and the threads in the block.
Thats it it is clean.
As for cleaning the gas port into the barrel you can run a toothpick wire or whatever in there to remove built up carbon. It should get flushed as you clean bore and gas block.
Told ya it was easy.

You have to remember military rifles are designed to be issued to and maintained by people whose maximum techinical ability is
EAT WITH RIGHT HAND, WIPE BUTT WITH LEFT HAND, SHOVEL MAKES HOLE IN DIRT, FOOD GOES IN MOUTH NOT EAR.
So none of them are very hard to work on. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:09 pm 
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So it's push the keeper UP. OK, I'll try and remember that.

Quote:
You have to remember military rifles are designed to be issued to and maintained by people whose maximum techinical ability is
EAT WITH RIGHT HAND, WIPE BUTT WITH LEFT HAND, SHOVEL MAKES HOLE IN DIRT, FOOD GOES IN MOUTH NOT EAR.
So none of them are very hard to work on. :wink:


Thanks for the laugh. I don't mean to keep mentioning the SKS, but I was told pretty much the same thing ("these were designed for use by uneducated Russian peasants") while someone was showing me how to take it apart for cleaning.

Originally I was planning to sell the Hakim as noted above, but after finding out how little it is worth (I'd actually lose money on what I paid for it), and how it's easier to clean than I thought...I think I'll hang onto it, at least until times get really rough. The only issue I still have with it is that the brass doesn't eject consistently, but I want to try out some new production 8mm ammo before leaping to any conclusions.

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:44 pm 
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cylarz wrote:
So it's push the keeper UP. OK, I'll try and remember that.

Quote:
You have to remember military rifles are designed to be issued to and maintained by people whose maximum techinical ability is
EAT WITH RIGHT HAND, WIPE BUTT WITH LEFT HAND, SHOVEL MAKES HOLE IN DIRT, FOOD GOES IN MOUTH NOT EAR.
So none of them are very hard to work on. :wink:


Thanks for the laugh. I don't mean to keep mentioning the SKS, but I was told pretty much the same thing ("these were designed for use by uneducated Russian peasants") while someone was showing me how to take it apart for cleaning.

Originally I was planning to sell the Hakim as noted above, but after finding out how little it is worth (I'd actually lose money on what I paid for it), and how it's easier to clean than I thought...I think I'll hang onto it, at least until times get really rough. The only issue I still have with it is that the brass doesn't eject consistently, but I want to try out some new production 8mm ammo before leaping to any conclusions.


Don't Sell...Love your Hakim!....I just got mine in last week and as soon as I get/or make a gas screw adjustment tool I will be feeding it some Rom 8mm!

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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:52 am 
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I wouldnt sell my Hakim if I had to. I really like it. Very dependable rifle. I use a very small thin flat head screwdriver to *gently* lift the edges of the gas screw spring to clear it for another rotation. I dont force it.
You should post a few pics of your rifle. Now I am curious how it looks!
I had issues with mild corrosion, or more like oxidation. I tried everything. Burners "use hot water" method did it. Plain and simple. Never had a problem since.
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=105502&start=15
My rifle is posted here. Bought in Kalifornia too!

Oh and Burners homemade tool for the gas tube works great, but I ordered some spare parts from a guy that sells some...(gas screws and springs are hard to get) and he also made machined gas tools. I have one of those too.


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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:25 pm 
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Hey Burner... the links don't seem to be working anymore. Do you know why? I would like to take a look see. Thanks. Mike

Burner wrote:
Hot water has been the prefered method of cleaning firearms for over 400 years.
If it is "HOT" it will dry itself in seconds and not harm a thing.


By the way the home shop built hakim gas tool on Surplusrifle . com is a good design.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/hakimgastool/index.asp

I designed it :wink:

Also great take down instructions.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/hakim/rifledisassembly/index.asp

Yup I wrote that too. =D>


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 Post subject: Re: Hakim gas cleaning
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:22 am 
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Those links dont work because the former site owner stopped paying for teh server and just let it all go to hell and gone.
But you can try getting in to the old wayback machine and going back in time through a old copy backdoor.

These will work you may have to try clicking them a few times.

(the gas tool) http://207.36.233.89/shooting2005/hakim ... /index.asp

( rifle take down) http://207.36.233.89/hakim/rifledisassembly/index.asp

(Hakim in general) http://207.36.233.89/hakim/index.asp

(the old mother site) http://207.36.233.89/index.asp

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