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Lee pistol crimp die questions HELP

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72 usmc
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Re: Lee pistol crimp die questions HELP

#16 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:38 pm

Thanks les 1234, good to know. I will do this with caution with trial crimps and grinding adjustments to the bottom of the die by hand sanding with a figure 8 pattern till I get close. I assume it is set up perfect for a 30 luger case at .850. Starline brass C/L average appears to be 0.772 inches. If it does not work I can use a cut down, M1 carbine taper die for a little better of a crimp on .308 bullets. I'd have to cut approximately .518 inch off a cheep Lee non carbide die. I also have an email to Lee to see if one can be made. So I now have 3 possible solutions. I could also just order a taper crimp for a M1 and cut that down. I wonder what is best the collet or taper die for crimping ammunition for an auto 1935 French pistol? Any opinions on that what is the best direction. From what I read, a taper crimp might serve me better ??? Any suggestions. Am I thinking wrong?

My problem was that pulled tokarev bullets that I put into my Starline, French long cases which were crimped in the CH4D set, had poor neck tension. What happened was I could take a reloaded cartridge, place it bullet down on the table, and push down on the cartridge and the bullet would slide back into the case. The factory Steinel ammo with .308 bullets & Starline brass does not do this. Likewise, the original .32 French Long, steel case cartridges do not do this. If I use the .309 pulled bullets from thee French ammo it does not do this unless I have an out of spec bullet. I found 2 of my reloaded rounds that slid back, but the bullet diameter measures .306 inch. I believe these French bullets were out of spec or crimped/deformed too much in the original French ammo.
After finding this out, I now measure each pulled bullet from my French Long, ammunition to be sure its at .309 prior to its use in reloading. So I have a neck tension issue with the die set if I use .308 or less diameter ammo. That is why I want to get some sort crimp die that goes to .308, to insure a better crimp on my reloaded French Long ammo using factory Starline brass with pulled Polish Tokarev bullets. Steinel uses .308 inch M1 carbine bullets. Or I avoid small bullets and use the .309 Hornady XTP 90 grain bullets. I got tons of split Polish tok ammo (.307/.308) and 900 rounds (.309) of dead primer, original French ammo and would like to use those pulled bullets in reloading if I can find a .307/.308 crimp die that works on the French long cartridge.
Comment, suggestions, criticisms is wellcome. I am new to pistol reloading.


For those that do not crimp or like me are new to reloading pistol ammo: Here are Some interesting basics about crimping:

https://thearmsguide.com/7747/reloading ... ed-part-1/

http://massreloading.com/Handgun_Cartri ... mping.html

https://www.sierrabullets.com/reload-basics/crimping/

https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/s ... ion/138116

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/reloadi ... dgun-cases

https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/thread ... mo.157894/

INTERESTING VIDEO

:arrow: :arrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDgULZ8dmYQ
CplSki USMC
4 years ago
I use Lee factory crimp dies and put just a light crimp on my auto loads and a solid crimp on my revolver loads. The Lee factory crimp is a compression crimp, not a roll crimp for those who may not know. It also sleeves the length of the case to assure conformity. Auto loaders index on the case mouth and it is very true that you should never roll crimp them which is in fact rather dangerous. Revolver loads need to be crimped and either a roll crimp or a compression crimp are suitable. The crimp on a revolver case creates a slight pressure increase prior to the bullet beginning to move which aids in thorough ignition for some powders and also a faster jump of the bullet into the forcing cone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXWEfLE-tJg
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

ammolab
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Re: Lee pistol crimp die questions HELP

#17 Post by ammolab » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:25 am

les1234 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:56 pm
Shortening the bottom of the inner sleeve will do what you want. Basically, you want it so that when the case, in the shell holder, contacts the bottom of the sleeve, the "fingers" on the collet portion should line up with the mouth of the case where you want the crimp to be. Adjusting the die up or down only regulates how tight the crimp is, but the length of the inner sleeve part of the die dictates where the crimp will be.
This: shorten the sliding sleeve at the bottom...it IS THE crimping collet. It moves up into the die body WITH your ctg so the position of the crimp is constant and it will NOT crimp on your French case unless you match it’s squeezing place to your case length.

Crimp position is fixed by the length of the sliding collet....crimp tightness/amount adjusted by screwing the die body in or out.

72 usmc
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Re: Lee pistol crimp die questions HELP

#18 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:53 am

So just to be clear. The die body with the treads does NOT move, it is screwed into the press. I will trim this part (shown by the arrow) the collet sleeve/shaft that does move. Both pictures show the collect sleeve/shaft. This sleeve or shaft sticks out of the body as seen in the lower photo and can move as shown in the upper photo. The shell holder pushes this collect sleeve up a wee bit into the body. Originally, I thought this was a metal portion of the body, I was wrong. It must not move much. look at the video around 2:14-2:17-- very little movement from the sleeve,just a little push against the collect. Proper shell case distance is controlled by the length of the collet internal sleeve. All this should be clear when my collet die arrives. It is hard to deal with just photos, I need something in my hands.
Screen Shot 2020-03-21 at 2.56.14 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-03-21 at 2.56.14 PM.png (61.12 KiB) Viewed 1369 times
s-l1600-1.jpg
Video of how to work the Lee collet Factory crimp die
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NOWqX0BX6o
This also shows the sleeve movement from the top view on a Lee collet crimp die
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpqN39bh4Qo
Last edited by 72 usmc on Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

72 usmc
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Posts: 2335
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm
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Re: Lee pistol crimp die questions HELP

#19 Post by 72 usmc » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:11 am

Here is video how to set a taper crimping die part 1 & 2 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1LEbcRDs70
This second vide shows how to test the crimp and ammo you reloaded in the pistol barrel or LE Wilson pistol headspace tool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TJ_-ctKr4s

Why Do I Need The Lee Factory Crimp Die?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpCheEEnAsk

How to clean & its works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... =emb_title
How to set it up in the press:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... =emb_title
Rifle ammo Lee factory crimp die:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTUgytUGnM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHR43TN5Zk

The problem, Lee does not make a solid taper die for the M1 carbine in .308 that I can cut down. Here are the Lee calibers for a simple taper die.

see picture below
Screen Shot 2020-03-23 at 12.22.20 PM.png
So for the .32 French Long to get a better crimp if using pulled Tokarev or .308 carbine bullets, get a 30 Luger collet crimp die or the normal M1 seating/crimp die and cut them down. Both should produce a tighter crimp than the normal .32 French long .309 seating/crimp die. I am going to try both :clap: :dance: This should solve the neck tension issue. Thank you all for you comments and help.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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