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 Post subject: Model 97 bayonet?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:47 pm 
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Mil-Surp Museum Curator
Mil-Surp Museum Curator

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:01 pm
Posts: 572
Location: CO
Age: 33
SharpsShtr

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 7/30/05
Posts: 60 1/05/06 at 12:00 PM


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Gents,

What model of bayonet was used on the Winchester Model 97 Trench Gun?

Matt


m47dragon

Mil-Surp Collector
Registered: 4/24/04
Posts: 1,052 1/05/06 at 12:14 PM


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I believe it is the same bayonet as used on the Model 1917.


SharpsShtr

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 7/30/05
Posts: 60 1/05/06 at 12:22 PM


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m47dragon,

Thanks for the info. I just picked up a new Norinco so its time to start shopping for accessories!!! Does anyone know where the original (WWI) weapons used all brass shotgun shells or paper ones?

Matt


shiva

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 9/24/05
Posts: 25 1/05/06 at 05:29 PM


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At the beginning of WWI paper shells were used these quickly were determined not suitable for trench use because the paper swelled when wet. All brass shells were adopted and used for the duration. At the beginning of WWII existing stocks of all brass shells had been depleted and commercial paper shells were used until supply could catch up with demand on all brass shells.


marysdad

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 187 1/05/06 at 10:17 PM


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M47dragon is correct. The M97 Trench Gun used the M1917 bayonet.

In addition to the WW I production of M1917 bayonets, there was a second production run in the 1960s just for the trench guns. These have interesting plastic grips, instead of the grooved wood grips of WW I vintage. The 1960s bayonets are often found in unissued condition, where most of the M1917s for sale today are well-worn.


m1marksman

Mil-Surp Collector
Registered: 1/11/04
Posts: 1,225 1/06/06 at 12:15 AM


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I know a guy who sells at the Du Page County gun shows that has one. I think he wants $250 for it. If you're really interested, I can ask him next time I go to the show. Otherwise, go for the P-14/ M1917 type. You can usually get one for under $75, although it will most likely have the earlier British scabbard.

Sportsmansguide.com sells reproduction bayonets & scabbards for them also.


SharpsShtr

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 7/30/05
Posts: 60 1/07/06 at 02:53 PM


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Gents,

There's a gun show in town this next weekend so I'll to find a bayonet either there or on eBay. Are there any marks on a bayonet to indicate that they were at one time paired with a Trench Gun? Also, can I assume that these firearms are a cylinder bore? Thanks for all the good info.

Matt


m47dragon

Mil-Surp Collector
Registered: 4/24/04
Posts: 1,052 1/07/06 at 05:57 PM


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SOG had some bayonets that would fit the 97 a while back for a good price.


marysdad

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 187 1/07/06 at 06:01 PM


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There were no identifying marks that I'm aware of on M1917 bayonets used on combat shotguns. The second production run were only used on shotguns, as the remaining M1917 rifles were sold off immediately following WW II.

If I recall correctly, All U.S. combat shotguns are 20 inch cylinder bores.


SharpsShtr

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 7/30/05
Posts: 60 1/07/06 at 07:40 PM


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I was wondering about the markings because of a beat up looking bayonet I had stumbled across. It appears to originally been marked as British but those where crossed out and U.S. markings were added. On the opposite side of the blade is a 1913 original mark and added marks of 9 17 with a circular seal with Remington inside. The interesting thing I noticed in the photo is the number "97" stamped on the side of the cross guard. I didn't know if this indicated any connection with the Model 97 or not.

But the prices at SOG make looking elsewhere probably not worth the trouble. Thanks for mentioning it m47dragon.

Matt


marysdad

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 187 1/09/06 at 08:07 PM


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The reason that the bayonet has both British and U.S. markings is that the bayonets were already in prodction for the British. When the U.S. took over production for our own use, the bayonets on hand were restamped with U.S. markings. I doubt that the "97" marking on the crosspiece is connected with the M97 shotgun, but understand why you would ask.


SharpsShtr

Mil-Surp Owner
Registered: 7/30/05
Posts: 60 1/12/06 at 05:45 PM


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Thanks,

I really appreciate all of the great info.

Matt


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