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SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

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OLDGUNNER1
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#391 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:00 pm

Just some more of ‘For What It’s Worth’ -

The spring job on the S & W 36 came out just fine. The double action trigger pull is now about 6 & 1/2 pounds with the single action about 3 & 1/4. I can fire 5 rounds in less that 2 seconds without any practice. I can make videos but I haven’t figured out how to down-load and post them. With the 1917 the single action trigger pull is about 3 & 1/2 and haven’t worked on the main spring as of yet...I would rather not ruin it before I know what I am doing.

I mentioned the polishing pads on eBay – I order one in 8000 grit and it made quick work of a piece of stainless steel polishing to a mirror finish. I doubt if they are ‘diamond’ but they work...at 1.97. I don’t know of their longevity but I will order a variety of grits. They should work fine in polishing parts of hand guns or anything. They appear to be workable, economical and convenient. I will cut some into strips and glue on tongue depressors. atachment=0]DSC_0003.JPG[/attachment]
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If one wishes to buy a light-weight 'Spring Kit' for a J frame S & W....

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10041 ... uced-power

And for N and etc. frames, here is the spings kit with 3 trigger return springs to choose from, so I can go ahead and grind away on my main spring - cheap learning.

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Custom-Tun ... tinfo/178/
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#392 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:43 pm

1917 TRIGGER JOB - -
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All of this is just my opinion – just what I have concluded in the past few days.

Okay.....If one may wish to do a good Trigger Job on a S & W Model 1917, and reduce the single action and double action trigger pulls to what ever they may desire, by using ‘All’ of the original parts and no new parts...just read on. I don’t think that one will find these steps commonly mentioned before this.

1. The reason for this is that the mind-set of S & W at the time was to make a tough military pistol as safe as practical and a heavy trigger pull was of importance. Relieve, remove metal, at the points indicated by my arrows until enough clearance is achieved – I used a Dremal type motor and a small diamond grinding fob. This is because at the time the design was good. But for a more friendly trigger pull the main spring is too long – it could and should be up to an 1/8 of an inch shorter, but I couldn’t think of a practical way to shorten it except put a bow in the main spring at its mid point, effectively shortening it, and then I would have had to use a longer main spring adjustment screw...no big thing but I thought that I would try this approach first.....so this is the reason for all of the metal removal. With the new spring kits, I assume that the new main spring will be shorter and the trigger return spring of lighter strength and this would be an easier way to do it....but this was my way.
2. I lessened the strength of the Trigger Return Spring by grinding away some of its perimeter but it could have been done by heating it in trial steps until the desired strength was achieved. I removed the metal from the sides of the main spring, not to make it weaker but to allow it to ‘bow’ more to effectively make it shorter.

I realize that the next time that I may do this I would do it differently. I will make a new main spring just to see if I can, and still use the original Trigger Return Spring. Yes, if I had a shorter main spring, I would not have had to remove any metal.

The final result is that I have about a 3 and half pound single action trigger pull and a nice completely adjustable double action trigger pull from about 5 pounds to about 12.

But, BUT...the big disadvantage of using a 16 dollar Spring Kit, I wouldn’t have learned as much.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#393 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:45 pm

Okay, I just threw caution to the wind and shortened my S & W 1917 Main Spring. It started out measuring 3.443 inches long...I annealed about 5/16 ths of the bottom end to lessen the chance of it breaking when I bent it. I bent about 3/16 of an inch of the bottom end about 90 degrees and then with the Dremal and a Swizz File finished it to fit the notch in the butt of the frame. I violated the basic rule of, “If it isn't broken, don’t fix it.” As I had said, it was working okay after I remove all of the metal necessary for clearance of operation. But....I wanted to know if it would work ‘better’ if I shortened the main spring. I will give this a ‘yes’. The spring was 3.443 inches long originally, and when I was through with it it measured 3.341, so I shortened it 0.102 inches. And I will say that it is now much more noticeably smoother in operation because, as I think, it now matches the hammer linkage much better. I understand at the time that these were made, the boss said, “Hey, these work now lets get them into production.”

If I were to need to do this to another S & W 1917, I would just shorten the main spring and weaken the Trigger Return Spring. With this shortened main spring the Double Action Trigger Pull is now adjustable from the 3 and 1/2 to maybe 12 or 16 pounds....and with a smooth trigger pull. And I didn’t have to modify the length of the main spring adjustment screw.

Yesterday I found out that with the 5 or 6 pound trigger pull on my S & W Model 36 was insufficient for reliable primer firing, so I shimmed to a 7 to 8 pound trigger pull and now it is fine. Before it had a 16 or more pound trigger pull. As Jerry Miculek has said, they need at least 7 pounds. My Model 36 doesn’t have an adjustment.

I am going to make a new main spring for the 1917 just to see how it will work.

My photo just shows how I modified the end of my spring.

attachment=0]DSC_0004.JPG[/attachment]
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Well.my photo does show much at all - sorry.
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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#394 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:02 pm

I am just wondering if I am the the only one that may be concerned with the horrendous trigger pulls on these revolvers. I know that I have just set these aside for 60 years and used ‘very’ little just because they have not not been one bit pleasant to shoot...just because of the trigger pull. This was brought to my attention after watching some Jerry Miculek videos. How could I have been so negligent in overlooking this? I guess there has been just too many other things to do. A couple of years ago I bought 500 used .38 brass just to do some practicing and I never did it. Now I know why, just because of the ridiculous trigger pulls.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#395 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:14 pm

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FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH -

These little 4 inch polishing disks work. They may not be for the purist with their selection of Arkansas and India Stones but I have some of these too, that I have bought at yard sales, But this selection of synthetic stones may be more convenient than the natural at much more the price. I haven’t verified the grit sizes but this is not too important for me. Some little Chinese girl made these for a price to allow these to be sold here post-paid on eBay for 1.95. I visited Main-land China in 1967 and one could not believe the changes and speed at which they have progressed.

These are a life-time supply for me – more like a few more life-times. They can make quick work of polishing gun parts...or sharpening knives...or whatever.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#396 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:21 am

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FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH - - -

I had a chance to check these polishing pads out...and I found them to be in one word, ‘WORTHLESS’. Of all of the things that I have purchased on eBay, these are the worse. I know....some people don’t bother but I find it a ‘game’ – an educational game.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#397 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:47 pm

Just a story----I saw on another forum where someone requested help in helping him teach his wife to shoot his S & W Model 36 snub-nose where she seemed to be overwhelmed – just too much for her to handle.

I saw two responses...one was to put larger wooden grips on the firearm and the other was to replace the grips with softer rubber grips. But I saw where ‘no one’ suggested lowering that 16 pound trigger pull. And I saw where no one suggested that the man-killing loads normally used be reduced to something more pleasant to shoot. As I have been playing with these S & W’s so much lately, that I think that I can take them apart and put them back together blindfolded.

And...a couple of days ago I loaded maybe 75 rounds with 124 grain cast bullets and 2.4 grains of 5066 and I am just guessing that I can shoot the 5 rounds in 2 seconds or less and keep the shots in a 12 inch circle at 20 feet – no I am not up to Jerry Miculek’s shooting but I can practice at it. And I noticed after about 25 shots I noticed not one flake of unburnt powder or one flake of powder fouling in the barrel. I attribute this to the good powder and the firm bullet crimp. I know that most don’t appreciate the quality of the old DuPont 5066 powder. I bought a 12 pound container of the surplus powder in about 1960 for 3 dollars and I just started on my last 1 pound can.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#398 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:30 pm

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Does anyone still have theirs?

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#399 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm

My S & W 1917----

Okay – After fiddling with it to the point of feeling no need to do any more at this time I have come to some conclusions - just my opinions now...

1. S & W knew exactly what they were doing with its trigger design.

2. The main spring adjustment screw in the butt adjusts the trigger pull just fine...for its ‘battle use’ – military use.

3. it was not designed for pleasant friendly use, and...And was purposely designed so that the trigger pull could not be lowered to what they considered to be an unsafe point.

4. They did this by making the main spring longer than necessary so that in the field if someone should decide to adjust this main spring for less trigger pull it would quit working. They wanted it to work at any time in the field and still be considered as safe as possible under the circumstances, this being life and death military use.

5. But for my back-yard friendly use I have concluded that I could shorten the main spring about 1/8 th of an inch and this will allow me to adjust the trigger pull to about 8 pounds, which I couldn’t do before I shortened the main spring, not withstanding that I had already modified the hammer piece to accommodate the original main spring length.

6, I had already reduced the tension of the trigger return spring by grinding some of its perimeter away.

So...last night I made up some light .45 ACP loads of 160 grain cast bullets with 2.4 grains of 5066 powder and went out back this morning and tried them – only one out of the 6 fired. I readjusted the main spring about 1/3 rd of a turn to the right and the next 6 had nice primmer indentations and fired. And this leaves me with my 1917 working just fine with any load that I may desire. And I later realized that I had only maybe an inch or less of barrel rise with that light load...could I add a little lead weight to the end of the barrel and reduce that to zero rise? And then again I was using a ‘one-hand grip’.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#400 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:27 pm

My Crow Story that I have never finished -

The local crows had a daily migration pattern of a couple hundred going west every day from say nine to eleven in the morning flying over here from 30 feet to 50 yards away. And then they would straggle back east during the late afternoon. And, AND...after the third day of me shooting at them with my Camo Air Gun, they quit this – all of them. Believe it or not they had a way of communicating to each and all, “Hey, stay away from that nasty guy with that gun.” Now we human’s probable do not really understand this but it happened just this way. Before that there would be a few crows that would come to my wife’s garden each day to eat the table scraps that she would throw their way. They quit that too.

They not only have this incredible inter communication skill that they pass along but this infallible memory as well. Even until now I will hear only an occasional crow call and that was last spring. And I have not had a shot at a single crow since then.

When I first took Scuba Diving lessons in 1957, I noticed how the balls of fish would all change directions at the same time...not in a wave type of action as would be normal if the fish would be following each other as if by eye sight. In other words, those fish in the rear would make that same change in direction as the ones in the front at the same time. And usually there would be a couple or so fish that would either not get the message or were maybe mentally disadvantaged. But at any rate, they are communicating in a way that we may call ‘Mental Telepathy’. I have noticed that the deer here when around the house do the same thing. I have thought that this may be due to their vocalization that is beyond our normal hearing range – I don’t know.

At any rate my Gamo Air Gun crow shooting has been a bust.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#401 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:56 am

Can anyone here tell me if this Forum Program has a way of not allowing the posting of Do-It-Myself Videos. I have been trying but so far have not been able to do so. If there is no particular reason that it can’t be done I’ll keep trying.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#402 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:35 pm

Good Question.

Not sure how to do that or if it can be done. :confusion-confused: But :idea: you can post it on You tube, then post a link to it on/in the forum?????? :confusion-shrug:
see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YOSVTGu5hs
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#403 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:01 pm

Well, thank you 72 - Yes I see the little YouTube Icon. Next step is to try to get my video 'into' that YouTube URL. If this works it could add a lot more Pizazz to this forum's posts. I haven't seen anything like this on any other forum either. This could be something if this was the first gun forum to see such a thing.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#404 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:49 pm

I hope the Powers-To-Be don’t mind me just touching on my 2 ND Amendment thoughts in this Trivia category. These are just my thoughts...

When people and politicians are saying that we have to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people, I think that we are more or less already doing this and doing a good job at it. When some are just saying this again it is just political rhetoric. It has been decided years ago by our courts that the rights to purchase and possess arms, guns, knives, etc., are suspended when someone is incarcerated in a jail or mental institution. And, AND...it usually takes the adjudication of a Judge or other Magistrate to place a person in them for any extended time. And we can’t have just anyone Willy-Nilly deciding just who may be crazy and who are not. So...it may be that so-called ‘Slippery Slope’ when one may be deprived of the rights to purchase and have arms. I don’t think that ‘bizarre’, or ‘weird’ will necessarily be called ‘Crazy’ in a Court of Law. And I further think that in the future there will still be the accepted legal practice of not being able to deprive someone of doing something that is legal just because ‘someone’ has thought that they ‘MIGHT’ do something wrong. The main issue being, ‘MIGHT’. I saw a fellow, who was a democratic US House representative from Texas this morning on Fox News who ‘implied’ this without saying so. He didn’t even come near of saying this. As he said that our government should pass legislation that may ban such purchases, as 100 round magazines, but I will add to this that I will think that it would be easier to just put high taxes on such items rather than an outright ban. Remembering the 200 dollar tax on automatic firearms for manufacturing and transferring rather than a ‘Ban’. That 200 dollar could be like a 2000 dollar tax on high capacity magazines now.

I realize that certain criminal offenders are banned from having firearms such as persons that have been convicted of domestic abuse and so on. This is a case of ‘preponderance of evidence’ that one ‘may be’ inclined or ‘Might’ do bad with a firearm.

But getting back to the main issue...should a person be banned from something that has not done a single thing ‘wrong’ because of something that they MIGHT do. I equate this to something like a local town or city ordinance against spitting on a public sidewalk, and then not allowing one to buy chewing tobacco because one ‘May spit on a pubic sidewalk’. That would be more than a ‘Slippery Slope’, this would be like a well greased slide.

I think that I can say this because the neighbor just passed away two weeks ago in Mexico. Bear with me and I’ll connect this. A fellow that lived just across the road from us had one of those ‘No-Name’ Mauser P-38 German copies that would malfunction once in a while. I shot it and believed the problem to be the clearance under the extractor that was too tight to go over the rim of the ammo. I had/have a .380 LLama with the same problem and talked to two different ‘Gunsmiths’ years ago about this problem. One said that I should leave it with him so he could ‘take a look at it’. I believed this would be like also leaving a signed blank check with him, so I didn’t go for that. And the other said that he thought for sure that the problem was the Magazine and he recommended that he order two new magazines and then there would be his added fee...The magazines would be 40 $ each...well I didn’t go for that either and just slightly rounded off the sharp grabbing edge of the extractor and the problem was solved – hasn’t missed a lick since. I thought that the neighbor was a bit weird, not crazy, just a little weird. So remembering the old Gunsmithing School rule, not to recommend to a person that one doesn’t know too well how to fix or repair a firearm just because the person may not do like the Gunsmith says....and then ‘Bad mouth’ the Gunsmith because he didn’t follow what the Gunsmith told him. I do believe this to be very valid and I didn’t offer anything. He was an early retired PhD teacher at Texas A & M.

Now as Paul Harvey use to say, “Now for the rest of the story.” He had gone to the local Sheriff to start a Conceal Carry Permit. And I ‘think’, just think, that the Sheriff recognized the same as I and stopped this...and at the same time I am assuming that the Sheriff informed the FBI so he did not get their approval for a firearm purchase. So....on a trip back to Houston he had a friend buy him a new fancy 9 mm pistol for him. Well, he had done something wrong. He had filed 30 some complaints with the Sheriff about a local woman’s barking dog and had been told by the Sheriff to knock that off. Now of course the straw-purchase was highly illegal. He had bought a house on a beach in Mexico to stay for the winters and a month ago he had come down with a heart problem and decided to sell it and stay here for the health care. He miss calculated and while down there and sold it and had just finished packing to come back and had a heart attack and died.

Anyway, right or wrong. He was weird and not crazy and was denied the right to buy a firearm. On the news all day here has been about back-ground checks. I think that the US Supreme Court will have to settle this later. I know...one person’s weird can be another’s crazy. I have a two-book set of US Supreme Court Rulings on all cases up to a certain year - I forget the year. Am I weird? I just took two law courses and bought the set just for a couple of dollars.

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Re: SOME THOUGHTS ON ACCURACY & OTHERS

#405 Post by OLDGUNNER1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:49 pm

Here is some Trivia – May be mind boggling Trivia to some...Morgan Freeman on TV to day about the universe said that, well he was just repeating what someone else said, that there are more stars in our universe than there are grains of sand on all of our beaches on our earth. That for sure is a bunch of stars. And another guy said that there is enough energy in one glass of water to supply all of the energy needs for York City for one year. Well, I kinda understand that part, at least have been told....E = MC2, that’s easy to calculate. But that part about the number of stars...I think someone is just guessing, maybe huh. I have two telescopes and I can see ‘some of them’. Open-mouthed smile Was it Samuel Clemens that said don’t believe anything you read and only half of what you see. Is one to believe that only half of them are stars? I guess that he could get away with saying that...There seems to be enough others telling fibs on TV every day and get away with it. By the way, did one ever read just why Samuel Clemens probable changed his name? It is funny just how historians hid that.

The other day there was a Travel type program on TV about a Rail Road Star Run in Nevada where it took people out into the the desert to see the stars at night. One woman that came from the east was saying that she had never seen the Milky Way before. I don’t know if this was just that she didn’t know what it was or that the weather was so bad back there. Here I can see most of the close planets most nights that are within the viewing area. We have the clearest night skies at 8175 feet. I met a guy in town that said that he has looked through one of his telescopes on every clear night since he has been here. The night sky is just fantastic. You low-landers just wouldn’t believe the difference. I have thought that it would be great to have a glass ceiling in the bedroom.

Anyway, everyone has to be somewhere...

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