Well I guess you don’t have to have any business ethics to run a business. This is very apparent after what happened to me by Buymilsurp.com. Let me tell you what happened and you can be the judge. I feel I need to let people know what kind of business he runs. You could also check out his neutral and negative Ebay feedback and see.

Buymilsurp.com is selling a spring almost exactly like my spring in looks only. They are definitely not of the same quality. They were using pictures of my spring with my copyright as advertisement. They started off selling my springs which I had sold them at a discount. It started with me selling them 10 springs. They sold them fairly quickly, then ordered 10 more. After not hearing anything from Mark for awhile I checked his site and noticed he showed approximately 2200 units in stock. I asked him about this and he told me he was doing that so as not to show out of stock and lose sales. He said he would be ordering from me regularly. After not receiving any orders in over 6 weeks I checked his site again. This time I found my advertisement showing sold out and another advertisement with my copyrighted picture of my spring under the title Mosin Nagant Trigger Return Spring Upgrade with just under 200 units in stock. After ordering a couple of these springs to verify that they were not mine I found out not only were they not my spring but he was using a picture of my spring with the copyright cropped out in the package with the spring, giving the false impression that they were my spring. He is also selling them on other sites such as Surplusbunker.com, Surplusfirearms.com, and other merchant sites. My attorney has sent a Cease and Desist letter. He is no longer using my picture but is still selling his spring with a picture almost identical to mine. As many forum members already know our springs went through a lot of rigorous testing by many fellow forum members. I know and if you have tested or bought one you know they work and will work for a very long time. I can state for a fact after examining this knock off spring it is definitely not of the same quality as a C & R Surplus Spring LLC Slack Spring. My only hope is that there are not a lot of failures with this other spring that would give my company a bad name. If you buy a C & R Slack Spring it will come in a package with my company name and web site. If my company name and site is not in the package it is not a C & R Surplus Spring Slack Spring. But then again if someone is willing to use a copy of my picture it’s hard telling what else they might do. Or you can email me and I can tell you the exact measurements Thanks for your support Clyde

WOW hope all works out for you, got a freind in the same position of a cam system on a bow............


yoop

Wow that sucks. I was gonna say to call a lawyer, but you already took the right steps. I don't think I will be giving my business to a man like that anytime soon.

I presume you talked to Mark kubes directly and he gave you tap dance? I've been a loyal customer of his for years, but that doesn't mean I know him.

Hopefully it wasn't one of his underlings doing what they thought was good, even not knowing the repurcusions.

Swapping out a copywrited part for a weaker one, is violating copywrite law. This could get nasty, and lawyers are expensive.

If you can't win this, the perrhaps work of mouth would equate to damage he would understand. If you can put it all down on paper, no opinions, just facts we can see if we can get the word out to the forums, and our members visit A LOT of forums. We would have to get the forums permission though first.

With knowledge of what we might embark on, he either makes good, or suffers. I don't believe he can claim slander if it's factual based.

Let us know if you need help.

Everything is completely factual. I have all documents to prove it. So there is no slander or libel involved. I don't plan to take this any further. I have no patent so I can't keep him from making and selling a similar spring. Which I believe he is selling quite a few. My big concern is letting people know that there are springs being sold by them that are not of the same quality. You know I can't figure out with all the products he sells he would have to copy my spring to improve his profit. I'm just starting out with one product and he has to copy it. Makes absolutely no sense to me. Guy's like him can put guy's like me out of business. I am going to do my best not to let that happen. Hopefully by next spring I will have a much larger line of springs to offer. Thanks for your support

Hate to say it as he puts some cool stuff on the market, but Mr. Kubes has more than one black mark on his record. This isn't the first time I've heard of him doing something unethical, and I'm sure won't be the last.

The first action does not necessarily violate copyright law. It is merely fraud in general, but there is a bit of copyright infringement due to the use of a "prior art".

Ctreser may have a case against the company for using his invention. You can still call it your invention even if it is not patented. You do not need to have an item filed with the United States Patent and Trademark Office to claim "Prior Art", but you do have a time limit starting from the date when you created or initiated your invention. Ctreser, if you wish to pursue this in the legal arena I would suggest you contact an Intellectual Property attorney.

The preceeding opinion should be considered only as an opinion and not legal advise. In no event will the poster, RKL56119 be held liable to any party for any damages arising in any way out of the availability, use, reliance on or inability to use poster's opinion or any information provided by or through the poster, or for any claim attributable to errors, omissions or other inaccuracies in, or destructive properties of any information provided by or through the poster.

LOL well said and mut be written m=by a lawyer


yoop

To keep your own business open in case Buymillsurp.com does decide to patent the design, tak one of your springs to the post office and have it sent to your shop via certified mail and do not open the package. This is called a poor man's patent and worked for a leather holster maker I read about in Gunworld magazine. It seems someone copied his design and tried forcing him out but has he had the original seal package with a date well before the competitor's date on his patent. Well the feller won the case because of it and while some argue against it, it has worked before in a court of law in case they try pushing the line.

such is the business world - screw unto others before they screw unto you - he found a saleable item in your spring - then went and found a much cheaper spring - bought it en masse - and cut you out of the deal - running off with all of your profits - dirty dealing all right - but it may be too expensive to pursue - and that really sucks - he might get away with it

Great tip, that is interesting that it was upheld.

Intellectual property is an area of law with crushing legal fees AND filing fees in regard to patents. If you write a book $45 or so gets you a copyright, but if you invent something the patent is in the thousands just to file at the US Patent Office.

Another cheaper alternative that will give you better insurance is to look into filing for the “Patent Pending” certification, it is MUCH cheaper than filing for the actual patent right away. Given that you have already introduced these, and sold them, I would look into “Patent Pending.”

In the meantime BuyMilSurp can suck it, I will never give them my business since is this is how they cannibalize and mistreat the Gun Community.

Wow! you guy's are great. This much info from a attorney would cost me a fortune. Mine probably already has. I only have so much time and money to take this so far. I will implement some of these ideas. It can't hurt anything. surpera1 you are exactly right. That's basically what he did. He had some spring maker make one almost exactly like mine in looks only. Whether they have the right heat set or made out of the right material or the right size material for that matter remains to be seen. There are many other factors to consider also. Another thing I will consider is that he offers many springs that have no copyright or patent. And springs is what I do. You may be interested in how this started. Here's the email correspondence when I first confronted him. Start from the bottom. And thanks again for everyone's support. Have a great day Clyde


No problem, I just didn't want it to zero out & lose sales.
.
Mark Kubes
Buymilsurp.com
Your source for Surplus Firearms, Parts and Accessories

----- Original Message -----
From: Clyde Treser
To: Mark Kubes
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: Slack Spring

Hi Mark,
That's great, I would love to sell you more springs and continue a good business relationship. I hope you understand my concern at seeing your in stock units go from 5 to 2200 and now to 12. It is your business how many you show in stock. It is none of my business how many you show in stock. As long as the Slack Springs you sell are genuine C & R Surplus Springs. I'm just trying to protect my newly developed Slack Spring from copyright infringements. Hope you understand my concerns.
Have a great day,

Clyde Treser
C & R Surplus Spring LLC.
http://crsurplusspring.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Kubes
To: Clyde Treser
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Slack Spring

I'll be ordering regularly
.
Mark Kubes
Buymilsurp.com
Your source for Surplus Firearms, Parts and Accessories

----- Original Message -----
From: Clyde Treser
To: mkubes@buymilsurp.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:50 PM
Subject: Slack Spring

Hi Mark,
I just happened to be looking at your web site and noticed that you show 2200 units of my spring in stock. I have only sold you 20 units. I hope this is a mistake as my product design is copyrighted. Please respond as soon as possible.

Clyde Treser
C & R Surplus Spring LLC.
http://crsurplusspring.com

After looking over the other guy's website, I am convinced he shafted you. Would the Moderators here be opposed to an open boycott of that site if called for by the membership? With the numerous websites that our members belong to politely getting the word out and asking folks to have the morals not to deal with cheats and thieves are in order. If I'm out of line so be it..... I do hate to see an entrepreneur who has a good product get screwed by a bigger company just wanting to make a quick buck.

Well when i stop playing with my Enfield's , I will be playing with my Mosin M44 , I will be buying one of your springs!!! (or more if i buy another mosin) GOOD LUCK with all this!!

Yeah, right. You and I both know this ain't gonna happen.

That sucks about him stealing your design. Business is really no better than politics, or so it seems. I wish you the best if you decide to persue it. If the time comes I need one, I know where I'll be buying from.