Well, the board is either fixed, or it's going to run terribly. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. I'm at my technical limit right now.

Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

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72 usmc
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#16 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:56 am

Too many ask if you can easily switch out the rear adjustable sight. (New data as of 11 Aug 2019: see page 3 #32 KENSIGHT solution) It is not an easy proposition due to the notch being incorrect on the Springfield air ventura, reproduction BB carbine- it is set into a square dovetail. In contrast all real USGI carbines have their rear sights set into a triangular dovetailed notch. We do not know the measurement of this dovetail on the Springfield BB carbine. Here are two photo examples showing the difference in the dovetail. If the reproduction notch is smaller than a real sight base, the reproduction replacement part's base could be filed square to fit into the Springfield's carbine notch. An easy fix. However, if it is larger or the same size some modifications would be needed and most likely look out of place or goofy.
Views of the Springfield Air venturi carbine
https://www.airventuri.com/av/springfie ... 1-carbine/
Screen Shot 2019-04-20 at 11.20.18 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-04-20 at 11.20.42 PM.png

Views of a USGI carbine with a early flip sight
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Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#17 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:07 am

The USGI sight base on an original carbine's rear sight is different from the cheep Taiwan reproduction sight found on the Springfield M1 reproduction BB carbine.
Here are some base views of a flipper and late war adjustable. Both have an angular cut. Source of photos are screen shots, Close up views, from flee bay. The big question is are the mount bases both the same width? Reproductions can be purchased of both types, but each will have the angular base with the correct width for a real USGI carbine. We need someone to measure the width the square cut notch(mount base) on the reproduction Springfield carbine. On a USGI sight base the measurement is exactly 0.486 inches or approximately 1/2 inch. See red line where measurements were taken on lowest photo. On a real carbine its a pressed fit, on the BB guns its held in place with screws. I have not yet seen how it's held in place on the Air Ventura Springfield BB carbine- no good close up photos.
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measurements
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Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#18 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:37 am

I have not seen an actual reproduction M1 carbine either the airsoft King Arms or the BB Springfield. Here are two screen shot views of the king Arms Paratrooper rear sight from a review video. It appears to have a flat square base set in a square notch and held on by two allen screws. No angular dovetail cut base. I also added a great close up of why it is not an easy switch to switch to a real USGI carbine stock because the stock inletting is different on the real carbines. However, both the Springfield and the King Arms stocks appears similar??? This would be good to know.

THE KING ARMS REAR SIGHT VIEWS
Screen Shot 2019-04-21 at 8.24.42 AM.png
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Screen Shot 2019-04-21 at 8.26.01 AM.png
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A CLOSE UP OF THE KING ARMS PARATROOPER STOCK magazine area. It appears similar to the BB version. I wonder if they are the same stocks used on both the King Arms and Springfield replicas??
Lower view is a King Arms carbine in a wood stock.
Screen Shot 2019-04-21 at 8.25.22 AM.png
This second lower photo ( Bobs) shows 2 carbines: a Springfield wood stock top and the lowest stock is an original USGI carbine wood stock.
What an inletting nightmare. The screw hole and longer trigger mechanism, I doubt if anything would actually align. Moral of the story, buy a wood stock Springfield model.
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#19 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:22 pm

So someone at the company needs to do a review indicating if USGI parts or current reproduction parts fit the Springfield Air Ventura carbine. Does a bayonet actually fit and can slide on & off easily? Does an oiler actually fit the stock and will a sling actually fit the Springfield M 1 carbine? Will the thicker & longer air gun magazines actually fit a Carbine magazine pouch- reproduction or genuine? Then, will the sling bar on the front band hold up to actual sling use- is it real metal, zemak, or plastic?
And what if a person wants to switch out the rear sight or front band? Do real USGI parts interchange with parts utilized on the Air Venturi Springfield M1 carbine BB shooter?
I wonder how it will function? Will it have problems feeding or air leakage like the Umerax MP 40? I wonder what other military models they will make: a weathered or limited production model with accurate/correct markings? Will they produce a wood stock paratrooper version? Why do they not supply a replacement seal kit with the rifle. Why not make a limited production, more accurately marked and numbered collectors carbine in a nice box? Something like the Combat vet or Commerative WW II 1941-1945 Umerax 1911 45 auto BB pistols? They also have the John Wayne and NRA.
And finally do different manufactures in Taiwan use similar parts so stocks could be switched?
I guess if we knew these answers, no one would purchase the plastic junk model--they will wait for the better editions.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#20 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:45 pm

Here is one of the best recent photos of the carbine with the wood stock (airsoft model) (looks good) : source is on line grab replica Air: This enlarges nicely. click on photo. One fine stock.
1550036284807.jpeg
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#21 Post by 72 usmc » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:48 am

The planned production date of April has been moved into June 2019. (Estimated in-stock date 06-05-19) I think more realistic from the past preproduction items where the in-store date is moved back 2 or 3 times, it may be as late as July 2019. I wonder if the wood version will be made in limited numbers due to cost.
page 1



It appears the production date has been set back again from 6/5/19 to an arrival date of 7/10 /19. So as I initially speculated they are into July :roll:
I wonder if they found some bugs in the system. Lets hope they are taken care of prior to production. It kind of sounds like we will be lucky if its out by fall 2019. :shhh: Maybe a better, more accurate reproduction( collectors edition) is being thought about. :shock:
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#22 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:23 am

Moved back again to 7/22/2019. Looks like a more realistic arrival date of late fall or just prior to the Christmas rush for gifts :roll: :shifty: :think: :violin: :violin:
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#23 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:20 pm

While about the problem plagued MP40, this does not reassure me about the warranty service on Taiwan made BB guns;
Quote is from Tommy T in the Q & A section comments:
He states:
No repair service
Umarex will not repair any gun under $500. If the gun is under warranty they will replace it, but if the warranty has expired and you have a problem you are out of luck. When I sent my gun to them to replace a trigger spring I was told that their gunsmiths don't repair guns, and they don't sell parts. WTF!!!. They suggested I throw mine away and buy a new one. So much for me buying another Umarex gun.
I guess I will wait and see what the M1 Carbines record actually is, because the air soft version has a few bugs: for example:
Did they happen to make any change to the retaining nut that holds the CO2 seal in the magazine. I have the wood Airsoft version of this and could not get Crosman CO2 cartridges to install all the way before they totally leaked out. Then I tried a narrow necked precision sealed Swiss Arms cartridge and it worked just fine. This magazine may be cartridge picky.
The MP 40 also has issues with leaking and sealing its two CO2 cartridges :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:


A QUOTE from the Springfield manual: (90) STINKING DAYS warranty only ---- On a $300 BB gun?????? :violin: :violin: :shifty: :shifty: :think: :snooty:
I see that Pyramid Air backs rifles they sell for exchange for a 1-year limited warranty. At least that is reasonable. :dance: I guess that is why you should buy from them.

Warranty
REPAIR / SERVICE / WARRANTY
NOTE: Do note return defective or damaged products to the dealer. If your Airgun needs repair, call Air Venturi® 216-220-1180 and ask for Service
Department. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DISASSEMBLE IT! Your Airgun
requires special tools and xtures to repair it. Any disassembly or modi cation not performed by Air Venturi® will void the warranty.

Screen Shot 2019-06-09 at 8.02.22 PM.png
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#24 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:12 am

Some interesting quotes about the reliability of the airsoft made M 1 carbines reliability:

I wonder if the Springfield Armory trade mark M1 Carbine made in Taiwan will have aluminum alloy internals (Zemak- a zinc and aluminum alloy that cracks & wears easy) that will hammer itself to death after a years use, or steel internals that will not wear out so fast? Many of the blow backs tend to wear out fast. I wish they would address this in some of the company reviews.


Piper McCabe
If it's a direct clone of the Marushin, and I have a feeling it is, the magazines will be too long to fit inside the M1 Carbine magazine pouches, which was my biggest turn off with the Marushin.
Hopefully, King Arms was smarter than Marushin and made the internal parts out of steel or genuine aluminum. While the newer Marushin's bolt was made of steel, it's internals like the hammer were made out of pot metal, leading to failures.
Sean Cole
My suggestion. I own both the King Arms and Marushin CO2 versions. The King Arms is a clone of the Marushin but better. The wood furniture on the KA is correct and the metal parts seem a bit heftier too. Marushin magazines WILL work in the KA. My KA Carbine is so much better than my Marushin.
CYMA’s M1 Carbine is by far the most accurate, hardest hitting, and realistic looking inexpensive spring airsoft rifle on the market. This spring gun is not recommended for field use. This airsoft gun shoots at a low muzzle velocity and is not built to endure heavy gameplay.
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#25 Post by 72 usmc » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:10 pm

Arrival date is becoming a joke. Moved back again to 7/26/2019. Looks like a more realistic arrival date of late fall or just prior to the Christmas rush for gifts is likely. Very odd. Lets hope a redesign for the collector marked is in store rather than a hold up on the plastic garbage BB carbine. :?: HOLD up :lol: :lol: :think: :think: :think: as fast as this was posted, POOF, they arrive :dance: :dance: :clap: :clap: see next post :oops:
Last edited by 72 usmc on Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#26 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:01 am

Crazy, now Thu 18 July IT IS IN STOCK at Pyramyd Air & Airgun Depot

My notice from PA :
Per your request from 2019-02-08 we are letting you know that the following item:
Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Springfie ... gn=instock

is now in stock and ready for shipping.

If you are still interested in this item feel free to order it any time.

Thank you,
Pyramyd Air Sales
================================
4th tin is always FREE!
FREE continental USA Ground Shipping on orders $150.00 and above
Now after a few sales there should be better pictures of the box , rifle, and more honest reviews... I am going to wait and see how they function. No need to rush into things at $300. Heck that is what I paid for my originals 25 years ago. :lol: :lol: :shock:

I would think by next week the first preorders should arrive and people will post some actual photos of the wood stock version. Neither company has posted any photos showing the box, or various close up views of the wood stocked rifle. PA has one photo then all the other views are of the plastic garbage stock shown under the wood model. One would think a company would post some correct photos in order to get some sales. There were a good number of people that preordered back in Feb. I'd like a wood stock model to take down and see what parts are similar to an original carbine, I am holding out for a possible commemorative or para trooper model next year. :shifty: :shifty:
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#27 Post by 72 usmc » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:21 am

Pyramid Air is now offering both the Airsoft & BB version. You can select either the cheep plastic or better wood stock. The Airsoft model has a 90 day warranty, while the BB model has a 1 yr warranty. Both versions are the same price-$199 or $299 depending on the stock. Still no decent pictures. :doh: Airgun Depot seems to offer only the plastic stock version. Has anyone received theirs?

Air Venturi show both versions: https://www.airventuri.com/av/springfie ... 1-carbine/

No pictures of the boxes or the wood stocks. I can do without the orange tip found on the airsoft model.


It seems everyone ordered the wood stock version because they are already sold out :
Estimated in-stock date 08-02-19
Place your order now for delivery priority!
it seems few want the plastic garbage!

And the In stock date for wood models has been moved back to
Estimated in-stock date 11-11-19
The reviews so far are lacking information that would provide useful comments. They do not address any of the questions, at least one indicates a real M1 bayonet fit the wood stock version. Another review indicated the plastic stock model's hand guard needs some tape due to its looseness.
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#28 Post by 72 usmc » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:59 am

Some interesting reviews: see https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Springfi ... gn=instock

Odd, no reviews posted yet on Airgun Depot???
Things I would have changed: How the top hand guard is secured to the weapon. Poorly executed. Almost as if it was an after thought. Mine rattles back and forth about 1/8 of an inch. It does not seat tight against the lower half of the stock. Also the top portion of the hand guard is 4 shades lighter than the bottom half of the stock. You would think that since this is plastic they could of matched the colors exact unlike stain on a wooden version. The quality of this one I received feels very cheap with the movement and rattling of the upper hand guard. Still can't believe that this was deemed acceptable to be shipped by the manufacturer and PyramdAir.
What others should know: Wait for the wooden stock version. That is what I ordered originally but came back the next day as out of stock. Found out later that they would not have them until first part of August. You will not like this plastic version, not for a 200 dollar weapon. Very light feel to it and does not give you a sense of the original.
The weight of a USGI carbine was approximately 5.5 to 5.8 pounds and the BB replica with a plastic stock is reported to weigh in at 5.7 pounds. It must be a feel thing between wood vs plastic??? here is a link to a real USGI carbine:
https://www.nps.gov/stri/upload/M1-Carb ... l_2018.pdf

There seems to be some company confusion actually when the wood stock model will be in stock because the date has been switched back to
Estimated in-stock date 08-15-19 rather than the recently posted Estimated in-stock date 11-11-19???
Most do not like the cheep plastic stock version. I think I will wait a year and see if a wood stock Paratrooper model BB version will come out similar to the airsoft version. Most are happy with the mechanical function.


AIR VENTURI NOW SHIPPING OFFICIALLY LICENSED SPRINGFIELD ARMORY® M1 CARBINE AIRGUN REPLICAS
Posted by HuntingNews | Jul 30, 2019 |
https://huntinginsider.com/air-venturi- ... -replicas/

Still no pictures of the box and how nice it is, or if it is different for the plastic & wood models. No mention of how well the magazine functions and holds/leaks gas, and if it actually fits into an original M1 mag pouch. No pictures of the disassembly and how easy or difficult it is to take down. No mention how close the parts on the BB rifle are to the real M1 carbine. No mention if the metal holds up to use/wear. Is the stock's simulated wood grain just on the surface of the plastic or mixed into and part of the plastic and if it wears off or scratches easily. No mention of how the white safety markings are best removed. Apparently real USGI or quality reproduction slings, oilers, and bayonets fit the BB rifle. The sight from the factor is right on, and most are happy the way it shoots, sounds & recoils on the bb rifle. Reportedly, the plastic versions feel is noticably different from an original wood stocked M1 carbine. I wonder how thin or cheep the metal parts are. What USGI parts may interchange? Has the bayonet lug cracked off on anyone? Does the rifle need lubercation, how dry is it out of the box. What comes in the box? Does it come with a replacement seal kit or special tools? What CO2 cartridge seals/functions the best in this model. What BBs work best. Unfortunately, there are still no serious reviews.
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#29 Post by 72 usmc » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:14 pm

Here is a view of the box with the plastic stock model. 22 July posted video
https://youtu.be/n2q9p6W9KOc
Screen Shot 2019-08-02 at 9.22.43 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-08-02 at 9.15.43 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-08-02 at 9.15.18 PM.png
As per the trials, it seems the Crosman Copperhead BB at 5.1 grain, & 426 FPS work the best in this rifle. Also good to know.
Some report 30-45 good shots per CO2 cylinder. No reports of which brand fits/functions better.

One of the reviews says a USGI bayonet fits the BB gun, another indicates both the back sight and the front sight cracked and had to be super glued back on - I wonder if they are Zemak pot metal or plastic. I wonder if the barrel bands are metal? I figured the bayonet lug would be the first to crack under use? In the above video this is a brand new rifle and notice how much of the black finish is worn/scratched off on the bolt top, rail and magazine- apparently this is not too durable of a finish. This could be both good or bad depending on if you want to use a magic eraser to produce an aged /weathered finish or keep it a nice new out of the box look. I wonder how the bolt lugs and rails will take wear with continued use. Will they wear to a point that the bolt no longer functions? I wonder what parts are Zemak and what parts are steel. Are the valve parts metal or plastic? I would grease the rails-it is not real USGI steel. The finish certainly comes off pretty easily, I wonder if the bolt will hammer itself to death? You only have a 90 day warranty on a $200 or $300 toy :doh: :doh: :?

I found out that the plastic stock, stimulated wood finish is not set into the molded plastic,rather it is a thin veneer on the surface and if it comes off by wear or scratches you see a tan plastic under the fake finish. Also mold lines are present & obvious, and the hand guard can be a slightly different color that does not match the bottom stock and the hand guard is rather loose. So, as I figured, the plastic stock is not the way to go. Some indicate the wood grain pattern does not match up at the mold lines in the stock. I wish more would discuss the wood stock & show some close up views and some of the internal parts so we can get an idea of what they are made from and if they are the same specifications as originals. On a wood stock, Japanese M1 airsoft carbine the reviewer indicated an original M1 oiler did not fit into the stock to hold a sling. I am still waiting to see if the longer & fatter magazine will fit into an original stock pouch.
Interesting Bruce in an PA review today just indicated with the wood stock model, but he does not state the brand:
I have the wood stock version and you just can't tell the difference from the real thing. I bought a sling and oiler for this gun to add to the realism, and the fit is perfect.
So at least a reproduction sling & oiler should fit the wood stock.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Springfield Armory M1 Carbine, Blowback CO2 .177cal BB Rifle

#30 Post by 72 usmc » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:57 am

A little more info & better review on military forum:
The box internal foam is not made for display, just for shipping. I wonder if the wood model comes in the same box?
798A6D70-C969-40A6-8D4B-D8F6A16454B8.jpeg
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... hl=carbine

Also the Air Gun Depot reviews allows for more information:
https://www.airgundepot.com/springfield ... rifle.html
Finally a good honest review by James, above source:

This does not feel like plastic nor look like plastic. When I opened the box and saw the carbine for the first time I really wondered for a moment if they had mistakenly sent me one of the wood equiped guns. Closer inspection shows it not quite up to successfully duplicating wood, but it is the best imitation I have ever seen. The "grain" does not run identically at the joining of the two halves and there is a very thin seam that runs a little proud there. Also, with the magazine out the gun is far too light to be mistaken for a wood stocked weapon.
Velocity was right at the factory rated specification on average. Early shots are higher and the late shots slightly below. Rapid firing has its usual effect on slowing the gun but in slow fire it is as advertised.
What amazed me was its accuracy. I used the new Crosman Black Widow BB and at 6 yards they will produce an overall group for the whole magazine of 1/4" with careful attention to your shooting. I did this offhand, not rested so the gun has accuracy. Granted, it was only 6 yards but really, if the gun can do that, it is a winner. I just shot around a little at distance (25 yards) but as I watched the point of impact on the water at the edge of my pond the ammo was consistently very close to point of aim.
Only 4 stars because the magazine spring jumped out of the raceway through the widened locking slot for the follower tab for the first two attempts at pulling it back to load. I had to drive out the pin at the bottom of the housing and remove the lower guide to get the spring free to replace it. It jumped again. The second time I noted the spring was arching up during compression and the coils were catching on the edge of this widened area so I smoothed out the edges and the problem was solved. Also, the upper hand guard was loose and rattled badly. I removed the fore-end furniture and put some rubber material at the rear edges of the handguard that fit under the reciever ring and a second piece at the forward end. This provided a snug fit and ended the rattle. The third defect was that there were two rough places on the surface of the stock that are obviously some residue of some sort that has hardened. I dare not attempt to smooth this out due to the risk of making matters worse. If not for those three problems, I would have given it 5 stars but 5 stars in my judgement is for those products that have no faults in design, construction, finish and performance.
There does seem to be some magazine quality issues, but none mention gas leakage which is good.
Mark PA review
Things I would have changed: Please try to improve the quality control and value. My rear sight broke within a week also my front sight became disconnected in less that a week. both were quick fixes but they should haved worked for more than a week. One Item I would change is the magazines they began to chip and slip very quiclly.
Robert PA review
Things I would have changed: I was disappointed that the rear sight is not adjustable for elevation, only for windage. Also, I have to fiddle with the magazine to get it to properly lock into the rifle. The mag release button functions, but there is a sweet spot that must be hit before it locks the magazine in place. I cannot simply insert the magazine and have it click into place.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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