Vz 24 Serial Number Help

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Phantom 778
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Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by Phantom 778 »

I am brand.... brand... BRAND NEW! To Vz24 Mausers. I have read a lot on other gun forum and searched the deepest parts of the internet trying to answer this question but all without success! Based on this serial number alone, who was this Vz24 made for? (this is all the information I have. There are no additional photos or markings on the rifle. No sling and scrubbed receiver).
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Re: Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by Rapidrob »

Early Czechoslovak Mausers
VZ98, VZ98/22, VZ23, VZ23a, and early VZ24 Rifle Production

No prefix block: 10,000 VZ98 long rifles (with Lange sight), produced in 1923, VZ23 Short bayonet (250mm blade).

A, B, C, D blocks: 40,000 VZ98/22 long rifles produced in 1923, VZ23 Short bayonet.

E block: 10,000 VZ98/22 long rifles made for Turkey in 1927, VZ23 Short bayonet

D, E, F, G, H, J, K, L blocks: 80,000 VZ23 short rifles produced in 1923, VZ23 Long bayonet (400mm blade). Both D block VZ98/22 and VZ23 rifles are reported, suggesting the changeover between models may have occurred midway through the D block. I block was skipped.

M block: 10,000 VZ23a short rifles produced in 1924 with removable rear sight bed, VZ24 bayonet (300mm blade). My M block VZ23a rifle has a removable rear sight bed. The type bayonet information comes from the three Czech websites but I have a VZ24 bayonet marked E(lion)24. Made in 1924, the lion is in a circle like the 1923 rifles and bayonets.

N, O, P, R blocks: 40,000 VZ24 short rifles produced in 1924. VZ24 bayonet (300mm blade). Q block was skipped. First VZ24 rifles.

S, T, U, V, X, Y, Z blocks: 70,000 VZ24 short rifles produced in 1924-1925. W block was skipped. S block VZ24 rifle reported marked E(lion)24. My X block VZ24 rifle is marked E(lion)25.

Somewhere around here the change occurred to interchangeable parts with few numbered parts. Andy said "I believe in late 1925 was changed to 90% of changeability".

The Q and W blocks were skipped because those letters do not exist in the Czech alphabet. The I block was skipped, possibly because of the similarity to the number 1.

The second series of VZ24 serial numbers were xxxxA, xxxxB, xxxxC, xxxxD1, xxxxE1, etc. If it were xxxxA through xxxxZ and xxxxA1 through xxxxZ1, that would be a lot of rifles for 1926. Andy reports a D1 suffix rifle. We know from the website that both 5005A and 1140K1 are marked E(lion)26. 3966U1 is marked E(lion)27. That would mean if 1926 production were 5005A-9999Z and 0001A1-1140K1 would be at least 335,136 rifles.

After the initial letter prefix batch was completed, serial numbers ran:

Brno:
xxxxA through xxxxC
xxxxD1 through xxxxZ1
xxxxA2 through xxxxZ2
xxxxA3 through xxxxZ3
xxxxA4 through xxxxZ4

Považská Bysterica:
A5xxxx through H5xxxx

In January 1926 Yugoslavia bought 42,000 VZ24 rifles. In 1929 Yugoslavia bought 50,000 more VZ24 for an overall total of 92,000 VZ24 rifles.

In 1937-38 there was also a no prefix series, a C prefix, D, E, and P. I have a Japanese VZ24 P61600 and a Chinese VZ24 P49939 (bolt P17616). Of this grouping, the P series was by far the largest. A P67008 has been reported. These were intended for export but some were taken for the Czech Army and so marked. They were later sold to Romania along with other unused VZ24 rifles in the Czech Army inventory. Japanese rifles have been reported with a C prefix.

from:
http://www.fronta.cz/fotogalerie/cs-opa ... uska-vz-23
hranicari.webgarden.cz/cz-vz-24
http://www.guns-info.cz/modules.php?nam ... e&sid=1336
http://rml1708.com/MyCzechWebpage/czmaim.htm
Serbian and Yugoslav Mauser Rifles by Branko Bogdanovic
John Wall (Sada and Franek)
AndyB in Slovakia (Sada and Franek)

VZ24 Romanian Contract Dates

Romanian contract, 1940. ARxxxx, BRxxxx, CRxxxx . . . YRxxxx. 25,000 per block. No QR or WR blocks. It seems that most, if not all, of the AR-YR Romanian contract rifles were made in 1940.

A. I have a BR bayonet in a CR scabbard, both dated Slovak 1940. There are far too many Slovak marked bayonets mixed in with Romanian contract bayonets for them to have been Romanian bayonets taken for Slovak use. They have to have first been Slovak accepted in 1940 and later taken for use with Romanian contract rifles - and serial matched with those rifles.

B. King Michael replaced King Carol on September 6, 1940. The King Michael crest replaced the King Carol crest on the rifles late in the AR-YR series. My King Michael crest VZ24 is a TR block. The crests would not have changed before King Michael took over.

Facts A and B bracket the Romanian contract within 1940 or nearly so. A small number may have overlapped into 1939 and/or 1941.

It seems that a large quantity of unused Czechoslovak Army VZ24 rifles were sold to Romania at the beginning of the Romanian contract. Used Czechoslovak Army VZ24 rifles (or mostly used and some unused) went to Germany.
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Re: Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by Phantom 778 »

Thank you for your reply but I read this post already on a different forum. It does not seem to answer my question. The Vz23 information is not relevent from what I can tell and the Vz24 information (related to a D being in front of the serial number) simple states: "In 1937-38 there was... a prefix D." So does this mean mine is a Japanese contract? There are no 00E00 markings.
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Re: Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by 72 usmc »

Unfortunately there is little published information in English about VZ 24 rifles. As a thought, not to be a critical old buzzard. Those scrubbed or sterilized Vz 24s were the bottom of the barrel rifles, most purchased ones with intact crests, original finish stocks, cleaning rods and original slings at $150 back in the day. No one wanted the scrubbed ones except for the receiver or for farm rifles. They are difficult to sell unless they are the intact VZ rifles. I traded one ( Scrubbed version) for an Israeli 308 K98 because the guy wanted the original sling on my shooter. He then sold the rifle minus the sling and cleaning rod for $125. I could not even get $200 last year and it had a great bore :doh: :(
So I figured the trade was a better move. If you are considering a purchase, I would wait till you fine an intact version. They are great shooters. Lots of us old guys are dying off and the wife dumps the collections at small shows or range gatherings. :shhh: :whistle:
If it is yours, they are good outside barn guns and shooters even with average bores. It can sit by the shed door and rust with no great loss.
I have had a few calls where friends want to sell surplus junk because they need cash due to a lack of money. Gun shows, antique fairs are closed. If you are known collector from your range group or people at the gun shows you may get calls. It is a buyers market. Unfortunately, I am too old to buy more stuff.

It also appears that the stock was sanded and refinished ? They really bark with Turk 8mm ammo. Check to see if the bolt matches. Most scrubbed ones did not match. Most will headspace, but I would still test it on a FIELD gauge. Like old Turks, more than a few fail as the bolt drops down onto a field gauge. It is always best to hold out and buy the best condition rifle possible.

I would rather have one like this, actually if I remember correct, I have a 1937 crest one, somewhere? Now I got too look for this since this jogged my brain. After the stroke I forget where I put it. See this example, a nice Japanese contract VZ: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... t-P-series
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Re: Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by 72 usmc »

This might be a dumb question, but is this the rifle you are talking about at a crazy price? in the other post:
My example is not sharpened thankfully! As for my VZ-24 rifle... I do not have one 😞. My local pawn shop is selling one with extremely nice wood but missing crest for $599. Seems way too high.
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Re: Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by Phantom 778 »

72 usmc wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 8:05 pm This might be a dumb question, but is this the rifle you are talking about at a crazy price? in the other post:
My example is not sharpened thankfully! As for my VZ-24 rifle... I do not have one 😞. My local pawn shop is selling one with extremely nice wood but missing crest for $599. Seems way too high.
Yes Sir it is. The guy at the pawn shop allowed me to take some pictures of it. What do you think?
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Re: Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by 72 usmc »

A $150 rifle, $200 tops if the bolt matches & it headspace on a FIELD gauge. I would search out a crested VZ 24-- that is worth $400-500. SAVE your cash for a better example.
Watch libertytreecollectors, Empire Arms or Todd at Family Firearms for a decent one. Get one nice example you will be proud to shoot & show off at that price of 500 :snooty: search out price trends here and get on the email list: https://www.empirearms.com/newstuff.htm
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Re: Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by Phantom 778 »

72 usmc wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 7:23 pm I would rather have one like this, actually if I remember correct, I have a 1937 crest one, somewhere? Now I got too look for this since this jogged my brain.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... t-P-series
I'll buy this one for $500 and trade it for your crest one if you would rather have one like this. I would rather have a crest one! 😀 Thank you very much for your help and insight!
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Re: Vz 24 Serial Number Help

Post by 72 usmc »

Sorry, A badly worded sentence.

The" this" refers to the 1937 crested one showed in the lower gun boards link, not the one at the shop. Sort of a bad sentence on my part. Like you indicate, I would search out a crested version. No one wants a scrubbed version. Their price is beyond nuts-it's a 150 rifle. :shifty:

Go to some gun shows ( if & when they start again) and you generally see better VZs, but at that $400-500 price. I had a scrubbed mint shooter and it was hard to get rid of-that is the one I had to trade away. I could not even get $200 cash for it last year. I also got rid of my Mosins, I collected them by the Tula star and year. But those went easy at $225 a pop. I need cash for med bills-co pays will kill you. I have 3 crested Vz 24s but am not getting rid of those: a Persian, Lion, 1937 or 1938.
All good things come to those that wait and have cash at that right time. Get to know the people at the gun shows in TX. Talk to them so they know you and the sellers will start saving stuff or call you when they find something you want. Consider a gun show as a social occasion to talk to the sellers. Also get to know the old guys at your range or shows, when time comes to sell their stuff, you will be the friend they contact. In my youth many a fine gun came my way because I shoveled snow, fixed something, or cut grass or just sat and shot the bull with the older neighbors helping them out for free. Poof, WW II goodies came my way as gifts. Of course this is a small town. Helped a farmer bail hay for a week end and got from him what he called a dog K98k. :dance: :doh:
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.
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