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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:13 pm 
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Mil-Surp Collector
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Can someone help me to understand what it is I have here? It is a Chatellerault MLE M16 and also has the markings MAC 1917, CC, and the letters J and C in circles. The numbers on the bolt, bolthead, stock, and barrel all match. There are no import makings anywhere that I can see. The stock also still has a faint circular cartouche stamped on the right side, and there is no upper handguard. The only missing part from I can tell is the rear stock sling swivel. The condition is rough, but it does still function and the barrel appears to be decent. Before I possibly screw up a rifle that might have some value, I would like to know what it is that I have! I am looking to tear it completely down, clean it up and perform some stock work. Any information would be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:22 pm 
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Mil-Surp Psychosis
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What you have is the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle Modifié 1916

MAC is for Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault
1917 is the year it was made
CC is the two letter code that shows who provided the steel for the barrel called the pourvoyeur de acier ... this was Companie des forges de Châtillon, Gemmentry and Menses-Maisons
J is French Supervising Officer called Directeur de Manufacture at MAC at that time who happens to be Lt. Colonel Marc, René Jacquot
C is the Final Inspectors/Principal Arms called the Contrôleur Généraux Principaux, sorry no listing on who these were

To learn more abot these weapons .... viewtopic.php?f=148&t=51608
Patrick

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Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

Vive le Pinard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:27 pm 
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Mil-Surp Psychosis
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BTW ... Nice catch ... this is the premier (1ème) type (1st Type) of this model ... They went to the deuxième (2ème) type (2nd Type) in very late 1917 (December) which changed to the classic usage of the handguard and steel sling bar in left side of the stock.

To see what month this one was made you will need to take out the barrel/receiver out of the stock and look on the bottom of the barrel. Underneath the barrel you will see many different codes and letters that were used for a varity of reasons that are unknown to us at this time, but the most important ones you will see are the two big E's with crowns that signify the weapons proofing called the Epreuve. The uppermost one is the primary proof of the steel and the other one is the final proof of the assembled weapon followed by a large number which told you the month that it was accomplished. Just above the Epreuve stamps is the stamp of the controller who proofed them which were usually the 2nd or 3rd class controllers, Contrôleurs de 2ème Classe et 3ème Classe.
Patrick

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Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

Vive le Pinard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Thanks for the quick reply! I am having a difficult time removing the bolt. Anything available with pictures?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:10 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=148&t=1111
Patrick

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Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

Vive le Pinard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Unfortunately the pictures are not working.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Mike67 wrote:
Unfortunately the pictures are not working.


Never mind, I got it! I just got a good look at the barrel, and it's super bright and shiny! Actually, it looks new! I can't wait to get it all redone and ready to shoot. This may be the best milsurp deal I've ever gotten!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:25 pm 
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'new' ... I doubt it but taken care of very well, I will agree too.
Patrick

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Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

Vive le Pinard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Actually once the gunk was removed, it looked in "like new" condition as far as barrels go. the outside of the barrel is another story however, as is the entire rifle. It's now all in pieces and will probably take me months to clean up and restore. I will do my best to not do anything to detract from its potential collectability or value.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:20 pm 
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Mike 67:

Congratulations on your new Berthier, and kudos on getting the earlier model. She looks like she'll will be quite the shooter when she's cleaned up. Please let us know how she shoots when you're done!

I would like to ask: what are you planning on doing to restore and clean it? I'm curious because I'm still learning about what is acceptable restoration work that doesn't destroy the weapon's historic value. Some people on the forum's various boards talk about refinishing and re-bluing while others do not.

The reason I'm asking is because I recently bought a Mle. 1916 Berthier, too, though mine is the infantry-length version. I want to get it professionally cleaned or clean it myself, and polish the butt plate. I don't think I'll touch the bluing (thanks again Patrick for talking me out of that) or the wood, but I wanted to find out what other collectors do when they restore their weapons...

To see my baby:

viewtopic.php?f=148&t=99602

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:45 pm 
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If the rear sling swivel is the same as the long infantry rifle, Springfield sporters has some, I just got one last week for my M16 Berthier, along with a rear band.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Lt. Moreau: From what I could see on the pics of your rifle, I wouldn't do much more than clean it, get all the dried oil gunk out of any creases and crevasses, and that's about it! If there's any heavy, flakey rust on the buttplate, clean that, but any brown patina, just leave as is, with a bit of oil to protect it.


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