RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

lewwallace
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:32 am
Age: 64
Location: huntington, wv

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by lewwallace »

728shooter wrote:
lewwallace wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:35 am
728shooter wrote:I, too, have the same pistol, marked R.A.F. on the side, 1938 mfg. with hammer spur intact. Beautiful condition throughout, lucky enough to find it in a pawn shop about 6-7 years ago. American Rifleman did a "...this old gun" feature on one like this a few years ago, said the value at the time was around $1,150 I believe. Every time I pick it up, I can't help but visualize some bloke climbing into his Spitfire with it strapped in his shoulder holster, heading up to fight the Battle of Britain....

Also, so that no one misunderstands, these pistols were made in .38 cal. S&W, NOT .38 Special! Rather anemic by today's standards, however, the military round used back then was a 200 gr. bullet, stout enough to put two holes into anyone that got hit by one...
Wow! A $thou+?
They have been going up steadily in price the last yr or so but I haven't seen any, regardless of condition, bringing anywhere close to that kind of money!!
Even the Mk IV, 38 Webleys aren't seeing much more than $4-600 in great shape w/provenance!
Got pix of your gun?

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk
I'm going to try attaching some pics of my gun, along with a copy of that article in "American Rifleman", hope I did it correctly. My gun is probably 98+%, with a perfect bore, all matching numbers and no import mark. The Enfield article has an obvious error in it, picture shows a gun with a "bobbed" hammer rather than an unaltered hammer spur. Also, I was wrong on their valuation of the gun -- it was actually $1,250. BTW, this article was printed 5 1/2 years ago in March of 2014.
One could certainly be w/I their rights to ask whatever they choose for a Enfield specimen such as yours, but my current observation of the market indicates that it would languish at that price.
Gun magazine writers are, w/exceptions, just writers and rely on various sources of information for these "profile" articles and as such can use some outdated, as well as, what can be described as speculative data. Which I feel is what is going on here.
But for a true value on Enfields of this type refer to the sales sites and various online forums and look not so much asking price but at if and for what they are selling.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk


User avatar
S.B.
Member
Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:44 pm
Age: 72
Location: Pontiac, Illinois

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by S.B. »

I can remember these at giveaway prices on SOGs website back in the late 1980-90s.
Steve

728shooter
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:45 pm
Age: 69
Location: Florida Beach, FL

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by 728shooter »

lewwallace, you are exactly right in your assessment of pricing. You can ask whatever you want for an item but the true value of it can only be determined by what someone else is willing to pay. And that may be entirely different for the next person... When I see the "estimated value" of a firearm listed, I consider the source first, and if its reputable, I will use that "value" as a ballpark figure at best. Everyone has to realize that the actual sale price may be considerably higher or lower than the stated "value", which can be drastically different depending on whether you are the buyer or seller. We have all seen firearms listed for sale at absurd prices and never sell; and I have also seen commonplace items listed fairly and end up selling for an absurd price!

The values quoted in the American Rifleman articles seem to come with reputable research, more so than from most gun dealers. The problem with guns such as the one listed in this post, there are so few of them that come up for sale that any sales history is either sparse or outdated, or both. As you said, best barometer for value is to see whats actually sold recently on various sales venues, but in this case, there is very little history to go by. JMHO...

--728shooter

lewwallace
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:32 am
Age: 64
Location: huntington, wv

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by lewwallace »

728shooter wrote:lewwallace, you are exactly right in your assessment of pricing. You can ask whatever you want for an item but the true value of it can only be determined by what someone else is willing to pay. And that may be entirely different for the next person... When I see the "estimated value" of a firearm listed, I consider the source first, and if its reputable, I will use that "value" as a ballpark figure at best. Everyone has to realize that the actual sale price may be considerably higher or lower than the stated "value", which can be drastically different depending on whether you are the buyer or seller. We have all seen firearms listed for sale at absurd prices and never sell; and I have also seen commonplace items listed fairly and end up selling for an absurd price!

The values quoted in the American Rifleman articles seem to come with reputable research, more so than from most gun dealers. The problem with guns such as the one listed in this post, there are so few of them that come up for sale that any sales history is either sparse or outdated, or both. As you said, best barometer for value is to see whats actually sold recently on various sales venues, but in this case, there is very little history to go by. JMHO...

--728shooter
I'm not seeing what makes the article writer or you think this is a rare collectible high priced gun. Yes it still has the hammer but (and I'm not gonna do a check on the nos.) there 10s of thousands of these made that a majority had them.
Photo: 1925, pre-war, currently up for purchase $605.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk


Image

728shooter
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:45 pm
Age: 69
Location: Florida Beach, FL

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by 728shooter »

Apparently, there are some out there that don't necessarily agree with your criteria of what defines rare. There were many No2's manufactured during their production years, only a fraction of which survive to this day, the majority having bobbed hammers. While there are many Enfield No.2's out there for sale, a significantly smaller amount have survived with the hammer spur intact, and of those, even fewer were marked for RAF service. Perhaps it would have to be engraved with Churchill's name to be considered rare by some...

https://pre98.com/shop/rare-raf-marked- ... spur-nice/

Sold for $1,250

User avatar
S.B.
Member
Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:44 pm
Age: 72
Location: Pontiac, Illinois

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by S.B. »

728shooter, I was under the impression the ones you call as bobbed hammer were specifiacally made that way for certain British military units? Not post war modified?
Steve

728shooter
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:45 pm
Age: 69
Location: Florida Beach, FL

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by 728shooter »

S.B. wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:09 pm
728shooter, I was under the impression the ones you call as bobbed hammer were specifiacally made that way for certain British military units? Not post war modified?
Steve
Steve -- According to info that I've read, the design of all N02's made late in the war was changed to bobbed-hammer configuration due to complaints by armored troops. Additionally, the war dept. decreed that all guns previously in service be reconfigured to the new "bobbed" design. I'm attaching again an article on this pistol from "The American Rifleman" (Mar. '13) with more information. Please note that the article is in error in that they reference an intact hammer spur on the pistol; however, the photo shown has a bobbed hammer.

--728shooter
Attachments
Enfield RAF - Am Rifle 3-14-ctr.pdf
(746.3 KiB) Downloaded 100 times

User avatar
Tommy Atkins
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:47 pm
Age: 66
Location: Hagerstown, MD

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by Tommy Atkins »

I was always told bobbed hammers were for issue to Tank crews. They also had a strange holster that was transverse across the thigh, butt forward.
Both modified officially for tanker use., (easy grasp sitting & no snag exiting a "brew up")

User avatar
S.B.
Member
Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:44 pm
Age: 72
Location: Pontiac, Illinois

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by S.B. »

If so, I stand corrected?
Steve

luigi
Member
Member
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:20 pm
Age: 69
Location: usa arkansas

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by luigi »

From what I have learned from some Brits, the spurless hammer version has nothing to do with tankers. It was strictly for cost savings in production and training.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_No._2#Variants

728shooter
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:45 pm
Age: 69
Location: Florida Beach, FL

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by 728shooter »

luigi wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:17 pm
From what I have learned from some Brits, the spurless hammer version has nothing to do with tankers. It was strictly for cost savings in production and training.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfield_No._2#Variants
I, too, have heard that same argument and it does make sense except for one thing. If cost savings and streamlining production was such a factor during the war, why then did they go through the time, trouble & expense to recall earlier specimens to modify the hammer to the new configuration? Logic in that decision just does not prevail...unless I'm missing something here?

--728shooter

luigi
Member
Member
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:20 pm
Age: 69
Location: usa arkansas

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by luigi »

728shooter

I am just stating the replies I received from the British members on Gunboards. If someone has technical papers from Enfield that would help solve the myth issue.
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... mk1+hammer

User avatar
Tommy Atkins
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:47 pm
Age: 66
Location: Hagerstown, MD

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by Tommy Atkins »

How do you save money by wasting resources in a war?
I just don't get it. It would make sense if they simply stopped making them with hammer spurs, but thats not what happened. I have heard the theory that it was done as a safety measure though, Initially for tank crews who could somehow cock the hammer causing an ND while inside the tank (yeah, Inside the holster) & later universally. This is based on the ability to use/not use the D/A cocking in the different versions.

PennsylvaniaRifleman
Member
Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:05 pm
Age: 52
Location: Philadelphia PA

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by PennsylvaniaRifleman »

My bet on the bobbed hammer was it was done to remove the temptation for bored/nervous troops to either fiddle with their pieces by repeatedly thumb-cocking/de-cocking in garrison, or carrying it cocked while in combat. Just as many police departments bobbed the hammers on countless double-action revolvers in the 60's and 70's...

luigi
Member
Member
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:20 pm
Age: 69
Location: usa arkansas

Re: RAF MARKED ENFIELD NO2 revolver

Post by luigi »

Tommy Atkins wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:39 am
How do you save money by wasting resources in a war?
I just don't get it. It would make sense if they simply stopped making them with hammer spurs, but thats not what happened. I have heard the theory that it was done as a safety measure though, Initially for tank crews who could somehow cock the hammer causing an ND while inside the tank (yeah, Inside the holster) & later universally. This is based on the ability to use/not use the D/A cocking in the different versions.
Tommy

Since when does everything the military does have to make sense?? LOL

Post Reply

Return to “British Empire and Commonwealth Pistols”