A look inside comparison: 8x56r Austrian vs 8x56r Bulgarian.

In this expanded episode of ‘A look inside’ we’ll inspect and compare
two versions of 8x56r. A 1938 Austrian M30 and a Bulgarian version
of the same. Both samples were generously provided by the Hebrew Hammer.

The Austrian M30, made under German occupation in 1938 according to
the information I read, looks like this:





And its cousin, a 1940 head stamped Bulgarian 8x56r with what appears to be a nickel
plated bullet, although I am unsure exactly what it is:





As usual, all weights were taken with the trusty old RCBS 10-10 beam scale.
Dimensional measurements were taken wit Mitutoyo digital micrometers and
a Central vernior caliper. Bullets were pulled using an RCBS collet type puller
mounted in a an RCBS Ammomaster press. Coffee was fresh ground A+P brand
contained in an aluminum mug.

Never having working with this cartridge before, a little research was in order.
This meant delving into the Carteach0 library (third crate from the left,
two layers deep). The best tome found for nominal dimensions and
cartridge data happened to be a conversion manual, showing both the
cartridge and how to build it from other obscure cases.

I will highly recommend this book, ‘The handbook of cartridge conversions’,
to any advanced hand loader. It serves the wonderful purpose of
making it crystal clear exactly what is involved in making one
cartridge case out of another cartridge case. In fact, it’s so clearly
spelled out that no sensible shooter would wish to try it.
That, my friends, is one time saving book!



We’ll begin with the Bulgarian.......

Exterior case dimensions were made first, and variations were found. Most impressive
were the over all length differences, a surprisingly large 0.019” starting at 2.995” and
ending at 3.012”. That is a substantial length spread. The bases ranged from .4900”
to .4924” with a 2.4 thousandth spread. The necks were quite difficult to measure as the
neck is tapered like the case body. I found an average neck taper of .004” from one end
to another. I suspect this helped with extraction on the straight pull rifles. Neck dimensions
varied from .3573” to .3600”. I tried to be as careful as possible to measure each case neck
at the same place. Case length variation was almost reasonable at .006”, from 2.183” to 2.189”.









The Bulgarian sample had the primers sealed, but not the bullets. The bullets pulled
quite easily, even with the cases heavily crimped into the bullet cannelure. This proved
to be a blessing, as the bullet diameter is quite large for an 8mm round. The collet used
in the puller was ‘diameter challenged’, being a 30 caliber unit. The 8x56r
bullets measured at .330, quite a stretch!

The unusual bullet diameter makes reloading this round difficult. Jacketed
bullets are near impossible to find, leaving the handloader with the
option of casting his own lead bullets. This can be a fascinating
part of the handloaders hobby, often resurrecting a rifle from
non-shooting status to useful life.



The powder is a cut flake of uniform proportions. It appears similar to that found
in the Yugoslavian 8x57, but clearly has a different texture. The powder seemed
fairly fresh despite its age.... being older than most of the people reading this.



The powder charges weighed in at 50.8 grains at the lowest to 51.5 grains in the
highest. Not a bad spread given both the powder type and the manufacturing
conditions of the time (wartime).

The bullets pulled were fascinating. They are a boat tailed design with
an exposed lead indented base. The jacket has a distinctive silvery color
and appears to be nickel plated. The bullet does attract a magnet.
It has a deep tapered cannelure as well.





In weighing the bullets, they had a fairly wide spread from 206.8 grains
to 208.0 grains. Their diameters measured from .3286” to .3300”, a very wide
variation of .0014”. More troubling than that, the individual bullets
had a diameter out of round variation of .001” each! Over a thousandth
of an inch from being round. That’s an accuracy killer if there ever was one.



Being of a curious bent, I just had to know the nature of the jacket and
what appeared to be a steel core. I was incorrect in that thought.

I proceeded to cut one of the bullets in two with a cut off wheel, then
polishing the cut surface with 600 grit cloth. There is no steel core,
instead having an easily scratched soft lead core. The jacket
appeared to be a solid metal, instead of a plated bullet.



The cases were berdan primed and weighed in with a low of 124.2 grains
to a high of 126.0 grains. Not a huge spread, but noticeable.

Initial conclusions on the Bulgarian: This ammunition does not appear to
be the most consistently made sample I’ve seen. Ok, I was being nice.
The bullet variations were real wowsers and the overall length spread
was pretty wide too. I don’t know what reputation the little 8x56r carbines
have for accuracy, but I suspect it could be better with ammunition of higher
quality than this.



Now we’ll move on to the Austrian M30 8x56r round, dated 1938 on the headstamp.

This ammunition arrived in its enbloc clips, each bearing a Waffen stamp
matching that of the head stamp.





The cases appeared clean and as new, clearly doing well for their age.

In dimensional measuring, I found the Austrian to be held to a higher standard
than the Bulgarian. OAL variations were a scant .001” at 3.005”
Case bases measured at .4905” with a very tight .0009” variation. Less than
one thousandth of an inch. Not bad! Neck diameters were tapered exactly as
the Bulgarian, but less so, at .0015”. The neck diameter ranged from .3561”
to .3591”, a spread of .0030” (Aint I good at this math stuff?!?). Case lengths
ranged from 2.187” to 2.194”, a .007” variation.





The bullets were not sealed to the cases, nor were the primers. Bullet tension
was light and even, with a gentle pull being all that was needed. The cases were
lightly crimped into the bullet cannelure.



The powder once again was a cut flake looking exactly like that used in the
Hungarian round. There was no noticeable difference between the two.





Powder weights ranged from 47.4 grains to 48.0 grains. The variation of
.6 grains being a bit less than the Hungarian, although the charge weight
in general was several grains less in the Austrian than the Bulgarian.
The donor reports the Bulgarian ammunition is quite hot, and may have been
a machine gun loading.

Case weights with the Austrian ranged from 133.0 grains to 135.9 grains, a fairly
wide spread. The slightly higher case weight of the Austrian over the Bulgarian
caused me to wonder if the powder load difference was because of case capacity.

To check this suspicion I had to either fill the cases with measured fluid or
cut the cases apart. Never being one to shirk from power tools and
destruction, the choice was obvious. I cut the cases.

What I found was the Austrian 8x56r case had a significantly thicker
base than the Bulgarian case. This difference in case capacity could
easily account for the powder variation.





In mentioning the task of cutting the cases, another incident must be related.
Naturally the live primers had to be either discharged or removed. Since I have
no firearm that would fire the primer, and no way to safely remove a live
berdan primer, ingenuity took over. My stroke of genius was to use a
propane torch to fire the primers. Brilliant, just plain brillaint................

Now, I did wear safety glasses, hold the case gently with pliers, and aim the
case mouth and primer in safe directions. I am not a TOTAL idiot, no matter
what my wife says, or my friends, or my kids.

The Austrian primers fired with one heckofa bang, blowing the flaming
primer across the room and emitting a large blast out the case mouth.

Cool..... I had to try that again. Yup..... KER BLAMMM.

He He.... now to try the Bulgarian. I have eaten Bulgarian food spicy enough
to strip paint. I expected their primers to spit fire too.

Nope.... the Bulgarian primers ignited with a wimpy anemic ‘foof’ and
pumped out a baby puff of smoke. The primer didn’t budge. The second case
did exactly the same thing.

Moral of the story? We.... I probably am an idiot. Aside from that, I would have
expected the Bulgarian to be weak or duds. The ammunition donor reports
the opposite, and that it’s sure fire and quite hot.



Back to the semi-science..........

I noticed a visible difference in the case rim from the Bulgarian to the Austrian.
The Austrian version seemed thicker and more uniform. Applying the micrometer
showed the rims to be different by .008”, .044” vs. .052”. This should make
a difference with head space.





The bullets pulled from the Austrian 8x56r were boat tailed and copper jacketed,
although they too attracted a magnet. Bullet weights varied from 206.5 grains to
207.6 grains. Bullet diameter was .3300”, give or take .0004”. Total diameter
variation was slightly less than .0009”, with 0.0” variation in roundness.







Some conclusions.....

1) I might be an idiot, but that will not stop me.
2) The Austrian appears of better quality than the Bulgarian.
3) While the nickel bullets look neat, I bet they don’t shoot that well.
4) Quality military ammunition has a remarkable life span, with this ammo being clean and sure fire.
The Austrian in particular looked like new internally and externally. The cases were actually
brilliantly shiny inside.
5) This was fun.


Finally, a few graphs for those who enjoy the pretty colors.....

Great report, I never get tired of these. Thank you for posting this. Also, would you considered doing an episode on Wolf .223 or Wolf 7.62x39? I know a lot of forum members shoot that stuff by the truck load.

Excellent Post!
The information you have provided is perfect for anyone who owns a 8x56R/Shoulder-Beater rifle. I have once wondered which cartridge performed better in both accuracy and performance of my M95 Steyr, and now I have all the information I think I will ever need. Personally, I always thought the German round was the better round since they were evenly packed into nice boxes, placed on robust clips and made with care where the non-Nazi ammo was simply quickly wrapped and shoved in a can. The differences, similarities, and performances you have calculated will help us all have a better understanding about each distinct round.. Thanks again

Snake...

At the moment I don't own either a .223 or 7.62x39.
Sick, huh?

When I run across some I'll buy a few boxes and take them apart.
My alter ego mad scientist must have victims!

I really like your beautiful photography. What brand/model of the camera you used for these pictures? What camera setting did you use?

Mas6360,

It's really nothing special. A Fuji Finepix S-3100 set at 1 or 2 megapixel and usually on Macro. I allow
the auto focus to do it's stuff and adapt myself to it.

Most of what you see has been photo-shopped, but only to the extent of cropping out wasted space
and adjusting light/color bias. I have Flourescents in the work shop and their color range is Shazbat.
The one natural color flood I added last week cuts the photoshop work in half.

The real trick is in lighting and stability. There are four different light sources in play, and the reality
is two more would be better. I treat photography stability the same as shooting stability. Not one of
these pics should have been taken without a tripod, but none were. I brace against the
loading bench or my press, or just my own body.

So, you did not use flash for those indoor pictures?

The very first picture was taken with zoom setting at the highest?

No zoom, no flash. I avoid both.

Flash washes colors badly, especially the nasty little flash that comes with the camera.
Instant two dimensional white wash. No flash means longer exposure means image stability issues.
Just hold her steady and use a few lights!

Zoom...... stability and focus issues again. It's like shooting... shooting a target close up is WAY easier
than shooting one far away.

Besides, the digital zoom used on cheaper cameras like mine means image quality loss.

Ive got both, and for the sake of Science. I will gladly send you some "victims"!!

Send me a PM I will take care of the rest!

These Take downs are way to cool!. The powder weight and bullet variance is amazing! No wonder i can hit anything!

I knew it wasnt me!!!!

P.S. for a added bonus beside the Wolf ammo you can take a peek at this stuff!

Wow. That sure explains why I get much better accuracy with the Nazi stuff.

Excellent work

Excellent work!
I really enjoy reading these, I liked the pretty colors, and I'm gonna have to try that propane torch thing!

I strongly advise against trying the propane torch thing. I am a trained professional idiot.
Do not attempt this at home. You'll put your eye out. There's a strong chance
you'll alter the orbits of some major planets and certainly the minor ones.
Angels will weep for you, and liberal politicians will propose new laws and taxes
regarding propane assault torches.

In other words..... don't try the propane torch thing.

Thanks carteach, you do outstanding work and it's a joy to work.

Also, I'm in the club because last week I did the propane torch thing with a de-powdered/bulleted Albanian 7.62 x 54r round out in the snow. Blew it right out the back with a loud flash and bang.

I was laughing when you decided on a Propane torch to deal with the primer as I already had an idea of what was going to happen.

A short follow up:

Looking around a bit, I see I made a mistake in what I posted.

There are bullets and brass available to load the 8x56r. Graf and Sons lists both.
Hornady makes a soft point bullet (HRN3302B) and Privi Partisan lists
brass (PPU8X56R). Both part numbers are Graf numbers.

They also list a .330" 100 grain plated round nose that would probably
make a nice plinker load.

Hornady loads a soft point hunting load for this caliber as well, listed
as HRN80492. $23.99 per 20 (Ouch!)[/b]

Good information and well done. I love the information and photos.

bill