Where in America can I buy

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S.B.
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Where in America can I buy

Post by S.B. »

coin style head spacing gauges for British 303 caliber, please post a link if you've got any>
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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by 72 usmc »

SCREWED :snooty: :shhh: :evil: , Okie and Yankee are military spec coin gauges and are history---- GONE.
Firewerks still makes only military spec Mosin coin gauges and the funny thing, I never found a rebuilt, import marked, Mosin that failed a FIELD gauge. A useless gauge.

So you are stuck with a non coin gauge, but Arrowmark in AU, a military spec gauge, no longer makes .303 headspace gauges. Now Clymer, Pacific tool, or Forster make .303 Saami gauges. But in reality if you get a Forster FIELD .303 gauge it is .070, basically a military spec No GO gauge. You would need to place a layer of thick, clear, Scotch or 3M HD packing tape on the back of a cheep Forster FIELD gauge. Or you use a special cut .004 shim on the back of the Field gauge.

So, if you see an old set of .303, 30-40 Krag, 8mm Lebel French or 8x56 or 8x 50 Steyr, or Mosin coin gauges snap them up ASAP.

A day late and a dollar short...
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by 72 usmc »

So you are left with non US made gauges:
https://www.tectal.at/media/pdf/f0/dd/1 ... l_V1-1.pdf
Screen Shot 2020-06-21 at 8.48.04 PM.png
In case of any questions please contact us at
office@tectal.at
© 2019 TECTAL GmbH, A-4431 Haidershofen, Austria --- www.tectal.at

direct link to coin gauges but super expensive: https://www.tectal.at/lee-enfield.303-british/

I would find someone at the range or at a gun show that has a gauge and can check your rifle, or have a local gunsmith test it. One gauge is about 30 bucks
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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by DaleH »

I use a few fired primers, inserted in pocket but not fully seated, as with good measuring technique the results are accurate & repeatable!

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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by Tommy Atkins »

You can use a 7.62X54R coin style gauge!
Coincidentally its identical with a .303 British Field gauge at 0.074"
7.62X54 R FIELD

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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by S.B. »

I tied to buy from Tectal but, being overseas they don't take my debit card and couldn't get anything to go through?
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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by Cattus Borealis »

I'm sure someone on this forum could lend you one...

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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by S.B. »

Well, I've purchased one but, you have to remove the extractor to use it and then replace it after you're done it's quite a bit of sping tension?
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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by 72 usmc »

If you have a 303 enfield SMLE, No4, or No. 5 you can pull the bolt back and just slide the edge of the gauge under the extractor. It is a pain, but it does go under. Not as easy as a coin gauge. When in straight and under the extractor, then very carefully push the bolt and close it down on say a FIELD REJECT gauge and see if the bolt closes down easily on the FIELD gauge. No major force. There is spring tension since it is cock on closing. I do this at gun shows to see if an Enfield is out of whack. If the bolt closes down on a FIELD gauge I leave it sit on the table. The bolt should lock up easy if it fails, do not use a great force-- it should fail to close if the headspace is OK. Kind of a feel thing- no more pressure than if closing down on a cartridge. Now if you are really concerned between a NO GO and FIELD, then you may want to strip the bolt. Any Enfield that does not close on a military FIELD gauge is OK to shoot in my book. Most do not worry about headspace. I make sure all the rifles I buy never close on a FIELD gauge. At gun shows, I use a coin gauge because its easy and no one allows you too strip a bolt. If lacking a gauge then use the poor boy method after you own a rifle. There is no time or space to do the poor boy test at a gun show or store.

Here is another method: Poor Boy headspace:


Poor boy Method of Headspaceing

Now you can use the Poor boys headspace test :lol: It only provides a general idea. You go to Hobby Lobby or Ace and buy some thin craft solder. Not the thick normal solder.
1) Clean the bolt, chamber, and barrel of the rifle. Keep the bolt assembled.
2) Obtain or make a .303 Dummy round. Make sure is a new cartridge and OAL is the same as the live ammo. Mark the tip and pull it, dump powder, and drill primer. Replace the bullet tip to the mark and measure OAL. Is it the same? Do not use a live round in the house. Or use a new live round at the range DANGER :doh:
3) Take the dummy cartridge and place it in the chamber
4) Point the rifle down with the open bolt to the rear
5) Take a length of craft solder and carefully place it over the back of the cartridge. It must lay across the entire cartridge back. It can be half moon shaped so it touches both ends of the cartridge.
6) Slowly close the bolt down onto the craft solder and the bolt face will smash flat the section of solder against the back of the cartridge case.
7) Slowly open the bolt in order to save and remove the flattened piece of craft solder. Measure the thin crushed down ends and see what the measurement of the crush is. Do not measure where the primer space is, just the nicely crushed ends that show the gap between the cartridge and the bolt face.
8) Do this process three times with a new section of thin, craft solder and get an average of the headspace gap between the bolt and cartridge. Are your measurements around .011- .015 or less? You most likely are OK. You are within hand grenade range for a half as... sample attempt at headspace. If your measurements exceed .015 and are something like .025-.045 you best buy a real headspace gauge and do a correct headspace test on a field gauge and see if the bolt closes on a REAL FIELD reject gauge.

Now this is a poor boys test, not really accurate, but it will give you a general, crude idea of where the rifle falls. Below .011 you are good.

Video of both methods discussed if one is too cheep to buy an actual FIELD gauge ;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ZGE9C_RTw

Some take a new case and just set a primer in the back, but do not press it in. Measure the OAL from the extended primer to the top of the case. Put that cartridge in the chamber and close the bolt down onto the cartridge chambering the empty case. Open the chamber, extract the case and remeasure the OAL from the pushed in primer and see how far the primer was pushed in. The difference between the two OALs is the gap or headspace in rough terms. I do not use this method. see more alternatives; viewtopic.php?f=16&t=347
A simple way, that gives a close approximation is by using a case and a primer :

Since the 303 headspaces on the rim, its headspace is the distance from the front of the rim of a seated case to the face of the bolt. To determine that distance we:
Measure the rim thickness of a new case. A fired case will have expanded and closed the headspace. You must use a new, i.e., unfired case. Measure around the rim and use the highest value obtained. For an example, we'll say it measures .062".

Take a fired primer and start it into the unfired case's primer pocket. Seat it just enough that it doesn't fall out.
Hand chamber the new case, and slam home the bolt, seating the fired primer with the bolt.

Remove the case from the rifle's chamber, and measure the distance the primer protrudes from the case head. For an example, we'll say it protrudes .014".

Add the rim thickness measurement to the primer protrusion measurement and you have your rifle's headspace, at least you have a close approximation of its headspace.
In our example, 0.062" + 0.014" = 0.076"
So on an Enfield if it closes on a FIELD gauge. Use caution, I do not buy such a rifle. There are way too many that pass a FIELD gauge test. If the craft solder indicates a gap of .040 or more then you got some headspace I would worry about. Read you fired brass.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by Alan De Enfield »

72 usmc wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:23 pm

Make sure is a new cartridge and OAL is the same as the live ammo. Mark the tip and pull it, dump powder, and drill primer. Replace the bullet tip to the mark and measure OAL. Is it the same? Do not use a live round in the house. Or use a new live round at the range DANGER :doh: .
Why is the Cartridge OAL important ?
The 303 headspaces on the cartridge rim (hence the use of 'coin' headspace gauges) so the length of the 'cartridge' is totally irrelevant.

The 'proper' "Gauges Armourers, Headspace" were just short lengths with enough space to mark them, and big enough to be able to handle them.

These are my 0.064" and 0.074" Canadian issue gauges.
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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by 72 usmc »

Great point. I just did not want any one to have a homemade dummy round that is too long and does not chamber. Hence if you make a dummy I always make them to specs. Too short is fine. But if someone is cheep, they can do the poor mans headspace test to see if they have some crazy gap like .040. Best bet is to use a headspace gauge. Its kind of nuts because the rim on different ammunition brands can vary in thickness. Hence the crushed solder measure is as goofy as a layer of packing tape on the back of a case too see if a bolt closes.
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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by 72 usmc »

Tommy Atkins » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:22 am
ou can use a 7.62X54R coin style gauge!
Coincidentally its identical with a .303 British Field gauge at 0.074"
7.62X54 R FIELD

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

I am not aware you could use a Russian Mosin coin gauge?? The Mosin set is Go =.065, NO GO= .073, and Field =.0765. So can you actually use a Mosin NO GO with.073 to test an Enfield???? A Mosin rim is around .064 thick.

And Enfield is .074 =Field gauge. Rim thickness on an Enfield should be around .064. If that works that is a great idea and SB can just buy a NO GO, coin type, Mosin gauge to act as a Field gauge on an Enfield. First time I heard of this . :dance: :clap: Solves the problem using tape, primers, or craft solder. Amen.
Brillant :lol: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

Also if one only has one rifle, and its safety is in doubt, it is best to have a gunsmith do a test and evaluation of a firearm. How much is an eye or face , maybe a finger or hand worth? Better safe than sorry.

I guess since most do not find piles of surplus rifles anymore, the need for headspace gauges has died off and only gunsmith's buy them. Demand must have really died off. Most do not buy/collect racks of Enfields, Mosins or Turk Mausers that they might want to check the headspace prior to purchase. The day of $50 specimens is long gone.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by Alan De Enfield »

72 usmc wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:07 pm

And Enfield is .074 =Field gauge.

Just to correct the terminology : there are only two headspace gauges for Lee Enfield's GO and NO-GO

The Go (Reject) is 0.064"
The NO-Go (High Limit) is 0.074"

The 'Field gauge' term was introduced by SAAMI but The Enfield pre-dates SAAMI.
If you ask for a Lee Enfield 'Field' gauge you will never find one.

Other dimensions of headspace gauges (eg 0.067") were available for armourers to use at various levels of maintenance - eg when rebuilt (or a new barrel) the rifle must 'pass' the 0.067" and 0.064" gauges.

There are only two gauges issued for general use.
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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by 72 usmc »

Interesting many moons ago Yankee offered 3 gauges a Go , no GO and a FIELD for the Mosin, Enfield, Lebel, and Mannlicher. I generally purchased only the FIELD gauge and not the package of 3. Now this was around 2000, granted. But the Enfield Field gauge came in this wrap, with markings . 074 Top photo with my .074 to the right.

This second photo shows two so called FIELD gauges the one on the left is a Mosin gauge and actually measures .074 and the one on the right is an Enfield Field gauge that measures .074. Both are the same size diameter and measure the same thickness. Now back in the day the gauges had small lines (Yankee) or dots (Okie & Firewerks) on the inner edge to ID the type of gauge. For Yankee one line= GO, two lines= NO GO and three lines = FIELD. I have no idea what the other two Enfield coin gauges measured, What they called a FIELD gauge measured .074 and is what is shown.
IMG_2827.jpg
IMG_2828.jpg
Interesting the Mosin gauge on the left is .001 thicker .074 not .073. I was told this is a Mosin FIELD GAUGE. They never told me the Enfield and Mosin gauge are the same gauges :lol: :lol: :lol: However, I apparently have a Mosin NO GO, not a FIELD. The other is an Enfield FIELD gauge. Both are approximately .074.
So SB get a Russian Mosin7.62x54R >.074/.073 gauge for a Mosin and use it to see if your bolt closes down on the Enfield. A new trick!
Kind of funny, my other set also has 3 gauges GO, NO GO,& FIELD that I am going to show. Not sure what brand I got these back in the 1990s. I never used these because I use the coin gauge from Yankee.
IMG_2829.jpg
IMG_2830.jpg
IMG_2831.jpg
So in America they sell 3 gauges for most rifles???
Last edited by 72 usmc on Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:31 pm, edited 8 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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Re: Where in America can I buy

Post by 72 usmc »

The Enfield set
IMG_2832.jpg
Interesting these say 303 also marked 30 40 ???
UP DATE: I found out from Clymer that the British .303 and 30-40 Krag set of headspace gauges are the same. They interchange, but the Clymer and Forster sets are SAAMI, not military spec gauges. I am unsure what my old set is and who's it is? Good for 30-40 Krag.

Another interesting fact, Forster still sells a set of 3 gauges for the Enfield 303, what the specs are on each I have no idea:
Screen Shot 2020-06-24 at 2.52.21 PM.png

In any event, I always used a .074 gauge coin style to purchase enfields. Plenty of those old boys passed and never came close to closing on the .303 FIELD or possible British NO GO 303 if at .074. Kind of crazy about the terminology on different specs. :doh: :doh:
This has turned into a very interesting and informative post.
Last edited by 72 usmc on Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
To old to fight and to old to run, a Jar head will just shoot and be done with you.

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